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 Which Faction?

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Lewis
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PostSubject: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 4:47

Hello! First post on this wonderful forum.. Ive recently bought a set of the harad lotr models and the betrayer on foot. (plan to add a few others) But id really like some advice on which faction/warband they should come under.. I also have a set of empire handgunner sprues (but having looked at these yesterday they seem a little bigger ... some converting will have to happen). The pirates list looks good and seems fitting, but part of me thinks they may be more sneaky than all out strength ... skaven almost? Is there a list which is blackpowder dominant but also evade orientated?

Thanks -

Lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 5:31

Welcome! Very Happy

An Araby warband from the Khemri setting or the Relics of the Crusades setting may suit your Harad models from LotR.

I love the Gunnery School of Nuln warband from the Nemesis Crown setting which is all guns and you definitely want to try to avoid close combat as much as possible. The Sartosa setting introduces a LOT more pirate warbands if you do like pirates. Also, on this forum BalrogTheBuff has created a Safari warband which is all guns but it is fairly new and hasn't been playtested much.
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Lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 5:40

Hey thanks lemming, are there any official/published warbands I can go with? (think the club require it!) Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 6:01

Welcome abroad!

The gunnery school is pretty much official. It was written by GW and all that. If you're looking for a core rule book list, I'd say you can't go wrong with reiklanders, especially if you're just getting into the game. Mercenary rules can pretty much represent just about any human faction out there.
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Lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 8:24

Ive just had a look at the pirates on the mordheim roster builder and their start spec is worse than mercs which seems ludicrous - and i think the same price .. also can people give me a bit of a heads up on whether handguns are better than bows/crossbows? Is reloading a big issue or all down to your tactic? thanks
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 8:57

I feel handguns are mostly useless.
Compare a handgun to a X-bow
Handgun: 35 gc for a S4 Range 24"
X-Bow: 25 gc for S4 Range 30"
Now there are a few other rules to consider:
Both have "Move and Fire" meaning you can't move and fire in the same turn.
Handgun also has 2 other rules.
-Prepared shoot= you can only fire every other turn
-Save Mod= -2 AS to enemy.

end result is this: For +10gc you lose 20% range, 50% fire rate, but gain armor piercing... and no one uses armor till latter in the game.
So I would not invest in Handgun's except for late in the game and only if your facing warbands that are starting to invest in armor.
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 9:31

Harad: Great models! I use them for my arabians too.

Official: Well, if you're playing with a GW store that requires ONLY official warbands, you're out of luck. That leaves you with Mercenaries or witch hunters.

If they let you use Town Cryer material (often called "Experimental"), you can use pirates (lots of sneakiness AND gunpowder), araby tomb robbers (from Khemri... a little on the weak side, so I doubt anyone will object), and Nuln. Nuln was one of the last supplements published through GW, but it's not as well received by rules-sharks, and with due reason- if you ask me, they're kinda broke. 3 hunched heroes with special Nuln weapons took out 3 of my guys and injured 3 more, all on the first round, before I even took my first move. Very cheesy.

Quite unofficial, there's the Sartosa Araby Smugglers, which is a mash of the Pirates with the Tomb Robbers. Found at the sartosa site: http://sites.google.com/site/styroheim/sartosa

If you're new to Mord, Reiklanders wouldn't be a bad way to go. Not very sneaky, but great shooters, lots of available equipment and steady leadership.


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Lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 9:33

Well id be playing at a local wargames club (not GW store) so there is more flex on which warband I go with -- how do you find playing pirates? Would be great to know how you go about fielding them. Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 10:23

I certainly wouldn't call pirates ineffectual, but they aren't "top tier" or anything like that. They are alot of fun though, and the swivel gun is lethal. I dont think I've er seen a pirate band win a campaign, but likewise I've never seen someone have a bad time playing them.

Like I said though, if this is your first go around, I'd suggest starting as reiklanders just to get you familiar with the game using a really well rounded warband. Then once you're comfortable with everything branch out to the more exotic choices.

Edit: completely skipped your question about fielding them. As with every warband, make sure you start with your max amount of heroes. Skip any sort of armor at creation. I'd also suggest just going all out and arming as many models as you can with black powder weapons, cause pirates with pistols and muskets just feels right


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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 10:27

Welcome aboard!

I play Arabyan warbands a lot. I've been mainly playing Sartosan Arabyan Smugglers for the past 6 months or so. I've also played the Tomb Robbers in a couple of campaigns and used the Relics of the Crusades warbands.

Relics warbands are written for a pre-gunpowder historical era, thus they won't fit with a gunpowder heavy model set.

For a warband with Arabyan style rules I would choose the Tomb Robbers.

For an Arabyan Corsair style the Sartosan Smugglers are a good fit.

As mentioned above any Mercenary warband will work (and Rieklanders will work best). The rules are official and quite useful.

The Pirate warband is fun to play, but includes some clunky rules that take a couple of readings/games to unravel. As for how they play, they play a lot like Mercenaries except you can recruit fallen enemy warriors, if you win, and you have a couple exotic weapons to play with. I love pirates.

Handguns versus crossbows and bows. Handguns lose unless you are using the Gunnery School of Nuln. Mordheim's Handgun rules are written with a bit of historical accuracy, while the crossbow rules are not. Thus the crossbow is always the better weapon.
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 10:51

If you are using the optional weather rules; some affect missile weapons but not black powder, and some affect black powder but not others, but otherwise the crossbow is the better option.
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 11:31

The best option is the one that looks coolest on the model and fits the fluff for your warband the best. Anything else should be of secondary concern.
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 14:53

Rules-wise, crossbows are a much better option for the gold. Much better.

You could always convert your Harad models with crossbows, if you are converting anyway. But you are right that the Warhammer figures are larger than the LotR figures, which will make conversions (handguns or crossbows) tricky. But you want to try it with crossbows let me know - I have like a bazillion spares of the crossbow arms and will cheerfully send you some (for the Mordheim mercs/Empire militia there are two sets of crossbow arms: one single piece holding a crossbow in both hands/arms and one set that has a crossbow on the left hand/arm and a bolt in the left hand/arm).

Actually, for conversion purposes, whether you go with hand guns or crossbows or a mix, the Perry Brothers War of the Roses mercs would be a good set - for one thing, a better size match.

http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=2490

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Lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Wed 19 Oct 2011 - 15:35

Thanks for all the info all! I have enough harad to attempt to convert both crossbow men and handgunners Smile From the advice im gonna go with the reiklanders (for this campaign) ... then branch out a little. Im also looking at getting the corsair arbalesters to fill the champion slots.. soon as my starter set turns up il make some posts (lost/sold all my gear years ago). Does anyone have any advice on young blood models or what may fit this warband? I like the umbar corsair models.. but they seem more adept than the harad (older looking etc).

Thanks mweaver for the offer of sprues! very kind of you
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Lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Fri 21 Oct 2011 - 7:26

Im thinking about the harad guard for heros or the serpent guards, any idea on youngbloods?
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Lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Fri 21 Oct 2011 - 9:11

Also from some discussions can i have some feedback Smile

Leader - Brace of Dueling Pistols, Axe, Sword
Champion - Sword, Axe
Champion - Sword, Axe
YoungBlood - 2 Hander
YoungBlood - 2 Hander

Marksmen x2 - Crossbow
Swordsmen x2 - Sword, Axe

Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Fri 21 Oct 2011 - 9:52

Purely from a rules perspective, there are a number of issues.

Second hand weapon = good. Sword and Axe = not so good.
Aside from a rare few warbands, armour is largely ignored and is easy to ignore unless you are running some house rules that buff it and/or make it cheaper. Axes just aren't worth it.
Swords are useful, but against enemies with multiple attacks, the chance of being able to make a parry, let alone have a reasonable chance of passing it, are slight.

If you want cheezfest, double clubs is the way to go. This is especially true of your Youngbloods. Their poor WS means you really need more attacks out of them (two weapons) and the chance of striking first, which two-handed weapons don't do.
If you want two-handers, then they are better on front-line henchmen. You're going last charging or not, so if they charge they loose the benefit. You then run the risk of going down, but if you don't you get to swing. Save the heroes for the counter charge (this will also give the Youngbloods a greater chance of xp).
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Fri 21 Oct 2011 - 9:54

drop your axes and take mace/club/hammer as they are cheaper and an Axe only is good against armor and no one uses armor. you will save 10 GC with this simple trade off (2GC per axe to mace).
your leader should drop the 2nd weapon 100% and use his pistols in h2h.
total saved 13GC
you can take those savings and roll them over into more troops latter or even a helmet for your learder.
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Lewis
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Fri 21 Oct 2011 - 10:17

Ok so ....

Leader - Brace of Dueling Pistols, Sword
Champion - Mace x2
Champion - Mace x2
YoungBlood - Hammer x2
YoungBlood - Hammer

Marksmen x3 - Crossbow
Warriors x2 - Bow, Mace

Warlock - Club

Got an 2 extra models out of that, feels a bit stronger .. pushing (if need be) with heros/warriors/warlock and holding with x3 crossbowmen.
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PostSubject: Re: Which Faction?   Today at 7:30

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