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 Draws and Campaigns

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LAZtheinfamous
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PostSubject: Draws and Campaigns   Sat 20 Aug 2011 - 17:06

A bit of background. We play at work. Clear off a couple desks and go at it. However, that means we have a very strict time limit. Start of shift until end of shift. We were busier at work then expected today. So we were left with a dilemma, what to do? Neither warband was ready for a rout, and neither guy really wanted to end the game, either. However, we HAD to clean up and get out. None of the 'We lost track of time' stuff can work, since the place shuts down as we leave (or at least our section). I typically referee and work as campaign co-ordinator.

Tom and Jim nearly finished off a game, and while Tom was on the point of needing to take a rout check, it would not have happened until the next round. Jim, on the other hand was SLIGHTLY more healthy. It was a particularly hard fought game, and while the numbers don't seem to bare (bear?) that out, it was a great match.

However, that leaves the point, where do we go in the campaign from here? I've thought of a couple of options.
1. Both people roll for rout, and if one fails, they lose.
2. Declare a draw. Which brings up its own set of questions.

Now, what we actually did, and I might take back, since it was done under duress, is the first option. Jim rolled an 11, so technically he lost. I don't particularly like that, since the game was still at a point where it could have gone either way. We have a definitive loser, and Tom doesn't win nearly enough (record 1 win, 7 losses!). So Tom would get the extra die during the exploration phase. My main beef about it is that the game was still playing, but there was no way that we could have re-set up next week, since like an idiot, I stayed up late playing Civ IV, and rushed out the door without my camera. Also, like I said, we had to clear out and clean up before end of shift.

Declaring a draw, though, that might be more to my liking. It would mean that Tom still would have a 1 in the 'W' column, but a draw isn't so bad. The problem with it though is that there isn't really anything for it in the rules for campaigns. So what it boils down to is if to treat it as both people winning and both getting the extra die for exploration, or treating them as both losing and neither getting the extra die. The additional problem though, is what to do about the campaign record. How does one count a draw? As half a win, or not at all? For Tom, its not going to make a huge difference, since the difference between 1 win and 1.5 isn't that big of a deal. For Jim, on the other hand, it is a different story, A difference of 1/2 a point could be the difference between second or third place. Since we will be winding down the campaign after this round, it makes a big difference. Or should we just go by straight wins and draws being the tie breaker?

Ah, so much to think about until Monday when work starts back up and we can sit and talk about it like 'Rational Adults'. Pshaw, someone is going to slug someone, and I really don't want that person to be me!
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Sat 20 Aug 2011 - 21:32

How many points are awarded for a win, and how many for a loss? If it is 1 and 0, then you could give both a 0.5 for the draw.

I think the best thing to do is ask Jim and Tom what they think. If Tom is suffering because of having only one win, Jim may not begrudge him the extra die at all.

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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Sat 20 Aug 2011 - 22:05

In my circle what we do is record it as a double loss. Just like in real life, sometimes outside events render battles moot. Flash floods, earthquakes, the store closing, etc. Them's the breaks and you just have to live with them. After all, real commanders have to live with worse, and this is just a game of toy soldiers Smile.
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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Sun 21 Aug 2011 - 1:14

We record it as a draw but treat it as a double loss. A bit of a shame but sometimes real life gets in the way. :-(

PS. My gaming group is composed of my work mates too. Don't play at work but often don't talk about much else! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Sun 21 Aug 2011 - 3:22

There is nothing stopping a house rule saying, the warband with the lowest WR wins in the event of a draw.
That would seem the fairest way to me, but the lowest WR warband might have to forfeit underdog xp to keep it balanced? Or maybe not?
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Sun 21 Aug 2011 - 9:15

Whatever you do I would suggest that you make it The Rule.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'the rules for campaigns'. Which rules for campaigns? There are quite a few with more being posted all the time. There are no 'official' rules for campaigns so whatever you do will be fine as long as it works for your players. But which set are you using?

We declare draws for games called for store closing if the players can't agree on a winner. For campaign points, we either have a draw value in the points rules to begin with or we don't need to record draws because the campaign has other victory conditions (we play lots of those).

Which reminds me that I need to add a point value for draws. BTB doesn't envision a draw result.

I'm going with 1.5 CP.

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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Mon 22 Aug 2011 - 0:07

Von Kurst wrote:
BTB doesn't envision a draw result.

I'm going with 1.5 CP.

All warbands in BTB get 1 CP for playing a battle and most BTB objectives (but not all - e.g. Celestial Protectorate) grant an extra 1 CP when the warband wins. Since not all warbands get the extra 1 CP for winning we made a draw mean that no warband gets the bonus CP for winning (in the same way that no warband gets the bonus XP for leader or the bonus dice for exploration). We had two our three draws in our BTB campaign and that method worked quite well.
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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Mon 22 Aug 2011 - 5:49

We've tended to give 3 points for a win, 2 for a draw and 1 for a loss.

Draws don't come up often though - mainly because they are so unsatisfying and cause the above mentioned questions for the after-game sequence!

We have always tended to agree on some "if we run out of time" criteria before a game: This happens a lot as we mostly play at lunchtime and an hour isn't quite enough time! We keep meaning to write these criteria down and have them as house rules but we haven't managed yet.

  • Where loot is the objective, the warband with the most is the winner.
  • Where moving to a point, or off the board, is the objective the warband that is closest to it is the winner (though there are some exceptions... in Streetfight, for example, we measure how far the furthest model is from the opposite edge - as it's not just a matter of getting one or two models to race down the street, its about getting your whole warband off!)
  • In Breakthrough we just said "tough" if you run out of time: Get two models off in an hour or you've lost.
  • In most other cases we count the number of Out of Action models (though that's not a good measure of success for some warbands - loosing 6 models from a "horde" is less of a problem than 2 from an "elite" warband).
  • We have used route tests a few times for multi-player games - all players dice-off for the order to test, then everyone rolls in turn. The "last warband standing" wins. We've occasionally given a -1 Leadership penalty to warbands that were already taking route tests before the game ended.
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Ordo Septenarius
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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Mon 22 Aug 2011 - 11:45

Grab a digital camera, and document what was happening as closely as possible. Then, re-assemble during next session, a la chess.

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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Tue 23 Aug 2011 - 5:39

Ordo Septenarius wrote:
Grab a digital camera, and document what was happening as closely as possible. Then, re-assemble during next session, a la chess.

That's cool when you are half way through a game but it's a pain in the butt when you run out of time in the last turn or two... and the first thing to happen in the second session is a failed break test!

Plus it would take most of the lunch break to record/set up!
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PostSubject: Re: Draws and Campaigns   Today at 4:59

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