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 Sea Dragon Cloaks

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siredge
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PostSubject: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Fri 19 Aug 2011 - 9:02

Can they be combined with other armor? (not counting shields)
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Fri 19 Aug 2011 - 12:35

No. Sea Dragon Cloaks count as body armor.
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Fri 19 Aug 2011 - 12:37

Ok i thought so but our group wasnt sure since it is a cloak.
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Fri 19 Aug 2011 - 18:07

The answer given in the other thread about this doesn't seem so definitive. Its a cloak that can be combined with armor in Warhammer rules. The cloak gives an armor save but so does scaly skin which is not armor (a skink priest does not have to be flayed to cast spells). It might be 'counted as' armor for balance reasons but the rarity and cost should be the balancing factors there.

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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Fri 19 Aug 2011 - 22:01

*Sigh*. No, I remember someone quoting the original authors:

"Q: Can the sea dragon cloak be combined with armor?
A: Never thought of that. I'd say no."

Think of it this way: it's the exact same as Ithilmar, but with an extra bonus against shooting. If you look at it that way, it makes SO much sense, and the price is justified. You look at it as an item that can stack with armor, and suddenly it gets broken REALLY quick.
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Sat 20 Aug 2011 - 4:11

Are you quoting from a source or memory?

Being wide awake at 5 in the morning, I looked through all my Warhammer and Mordheim stuff about Sea Dragon cloaks. The authors of the DE warband pulled their rules out of somewhere but it wasn't 5th Warhammer. Their version is way better than any Warhammer version and it shouldn't be.


I think a house rule based on 6th Editon Warhammer would fix the problem.

SDC: is a cloak that gives a +1 armor save in CC and +2 against missiles.

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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Mon 22 Aug 2011 - 11:15

This came up the other day in a game.

Sea Dragon cloaks say this

"Scales: 5+ armour save in close combat, 4+
armour save against missiles."

We had a human merc charging a character with a pistol in close combat.

what save would the model with the sea dragon cloak get?


Also a side note, does a brace of pistols count as both ranged weapons or one?
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Mon 22 Aug 2011 - 11:39

In close combat pistols are close combat and use ws to hit I believe. And a brace of pistols counts as one ranged weapon slot.
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Mon 22 Aug 2011 - 11:59

ok so yea i understand that which I feel like because the pistol is being used in close combat the cloaks should not get the extra +1 armor save.

But the argument is that even though the pistol is being used in close combat it is still a missle weapon. and as such the cloak should get its +1 armor save.

Anyone have any official ruling on this?
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Mon 22 Aug 2011 - 21:32

Not an official opinion, but I say:

Pistol: counts as hand to hand. Why: it uses WS.

Crossbow Pistol: counts as missile. Why: uses BS.
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Tue 23 Aug 2011 - 1:05

According to my copies of the Darkelf rules, Styrofoamking is right for additional reasons i.e. the rules say he is.
A crossbow pistol is unambiguously a missile weapon because it is in the section marked "Missile weapons" and you would be *very* hard-pressed to claim that a missile weapon doesn't cause hits by shooting.

The pistol is even more unambiguous. The cloak gives you a 5+/+1 armour save in melee (depending on rules version) during close combat and the pistol has a rule saying it can be used during the close-combat phase.

In my circle we decided to take it off what class of weapon it is. A close combat weapon causes close combat hits and a missile weapon causes missile hits. We have a houserule that blackpowder weapons count as missile weapons, so against a pistol the armour saves at 6+ whether it is fired from range or in close combat.

As for the armour, using the Lustria rules, no it doesn't stack with armour because it doesn't say it can. In fact, off the top of my head the only armour that says it will stack is a shield. There isn't any rule per se saying that you can't wear more than one set of armour, but it won't have any game effect because it won't stack and the rules only say you can make 'a' save against wounding hits not 'a save per set of armour you are wearing'.

Using the Druchii rules, yes the cloack does stack because it has been re-written to grant +1 AS vs melee and +2 AS vs shooting (base 6+ and 5+ respectivly if you don't have any other armour).
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Tue 23 Aug 2011 - 15:07

I always thought the extra save vs missile attacks was because the Dark Elf could wrap it around himself as he advances, while in combat that wouldn't be so easy to achieve, hence the lower save against H2H.
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PostSubject: Re: Sea Dragon Cloaks   Today at 8:40

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