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 Beastmen vs ranged

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Grimtoof
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PostSubject: Beastmen vs ranged   Sat 23 Jul 2011 - 22:33

I have come up with an idea that works really really well, 1 in like 20 are the odds of actually dropping, and out of those 1 in 20 there is a 1 in 3 chance of being taken OoA. If all else fails, and you are forced into making a charge at a warband that is fully prepared to get all its shots on you (this should be rare).

If this happens as beastmen and your warband is fighting another really experienced ranged warband, a bestigor hero with the extra arm mutation, and shaggy hide upgrade can be your best friend (healing herb will help even farther if you want). Put the bestigor hero up in front to take the shots, I know what everyone is saying, that will get your hero killed, bad idea. That is actually very far from the truth. The bestigor will have a 1+ save modified to a 2+ if they have crossbows, and a 3+ if they have black powder weapons, but will cut their hero shooting in half. This works especially well against any warband with bows as they can't even crit your bestigor.

Even if they are reiklanders, their henchmen will hit on 3's because you are using something to hide behind (a rock or a barrel), meaning if they still have their captain they will get an average of 4 hits, maybe one 6 on the to wound resulting in either a wound ignoring armour, a riccochet (armour save), or 2 unsaved wounds. Then if ALL of his heroes have crossbows, double tap, and really nice ballistics skill will get 12 shots at 2+, that is 10 hits, one maybe 2 crits, 2 or so wounds (at 2+ save), and only a 2/3 chance of ignoring your armour. This move should place you within charge range and as almost all of his stuff is ranged for this choice you should mop him up easily.

There is still a chance that he will be taken OoA but as I said the odds are like 1 in 60. (with the absolute best shooting warband there is possible, shooting all its shots at you).

This is a counter I have come up with lately to resolve my issues with ranged warbands getting on my nerves and it has really paid off, especially against reiklanders which imo are the nastiest shooting warband there is.

So what does everyone think? Is this a viable strategy in a pinch using a veteran warband? Or is everyone against the idea of putting a well equipped veteran hero in the line of fire like that?

Let me know what your strategy would be, (this would not be an option for most fights as either the setup will require the enemy warband to move after objectives (making killing them a lot easier for melee bands), or the enemies rating is low, in which case your beastmen should dominate them anyways.

Oh, also the reason why he has a 1+ save is because 4+ for gromril, 3+ for shaggy hide 2+ for a shield and 1+ for the second shield in your 3rd arm.
Cheers.
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Saranor
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PostSubject: Re: Beastmen vs ranged   Sun 24 Jul 2011 - 1:49

Your enemy could use poison/superior Blackpowder (more hits/wounds) or elevated positions, that he can choose to target weaker members of your warband.
Or he can simply send a weak member(perhaps a dog) of his warband in Combat with your bestigor and than he can shoot at the next model.

Even Reiklanders have only 7 marksmen + 5 heroes (12 of 15 are shooters), if they have at least one can opener (Champion or LGT Swordman with Strongman, gromril two-Handed weapon and +Strength and Mighty Blow = S7) you should be cautious...
In our group our Reiklanders has something like:
Youngblood
+ 2 WS, + 3 A, +S, +2 W, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Swordmaster, 2 Swords, Gromril armor
thats 9 attacks with S5, if he starts using Poison or Gromril weapons he will easily cut through such an armor...
normaly we go for the rest of his warband, to fight him and avoid his youngblood...

For an all shooting warband your plan might have a chance, but if your enemy starts to backup his firepower with strong melee, he can counter your plan and he just needs 3-5 men for this, so he has still superior range power...


how about this plan (if you have enough terrain):
stay complety out of side until you are within 4" and than charge with an Ini-roll around the edges. He can only shoot with bows or he need the skill nimble for a crossbow and can't use quickshot. In both cases he gets a penalty for moving. This reduces his hits/wounds and he leaves his cover.
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Grimtoof
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PostSubject: Re: Beastmen vs ranged   Sun 24 Jul 2011 - 20:56

the plan for getting within 4 inches will never work, his heroes have atleast 1 guy with a lantern, hopeless getting that close. The height is not an issue as he can't get all his marksmen on a high spot to shoot at random so I couldn't care less about that. I have 2 gor heroes with speed and strength for countering a young blood charge like that, I can keep them beside houses etc to accept his charge from any can openers with lightning reflexes, second off with a spear my bestigor hero gets 4 attacks at WS 7 I 7 Str 5, I am not afraid of a youngblood in the least lol, especially not one with 2 wounds against a bestigor with 5. The young blood will hit on 4's wound on 5's and I will still get a 3+ save, unless he has poison, then 4+.

Even if he did have a can opener and I wanted to be extra cautious I could throw 2 dogs in front that way that he can't charge my bestigor, leaving him open to my assault once again.

Also talking about having a few guys to back him up from melee, that won't stop my beastmen warband, it takes a really dedicated melee force to even put up a fight against my beastmen. I am not really concerned about melee guys unless they are heroes, and if he had 5 melee heroes (only thing that would even stand a remote chance of threatening a beastmen assault) He will have such horrible shooting that I can just run as normal, dogs out front to take the hit followed by a 6 melee hero counter charge.

Ah nvm I think I misunderstood you about the 4" thing, yeah that is possible, but then he will just move out of the 4 inch range on his turn and wait for me anyways, won't work against him.

Overall, can openers are not very scary personally, I mean I know some people would be afraid of them, but the armour is there for the ranged, the melee is never a problem for me as beasts.

Thanks for your input though.
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Beastmen vs ranged   Sun 24 Jul 2011 - 21:36

Clearly, you have never seen what happens to my beastmen when they attempt to close on shooters.

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PostSubject: Re: Beastmen vs ranged   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 11:02

The thing most beastmen have trouble with when closing on shooters from what I have experienced is not using hiding, and terrain enough. My beastmen used to all be knocked down/stunned/OoA when I tried to close on my friends reiklanders. Now I get 1-2 hounds knocked down maybe a gor, and a hero takes a wound or 2, then I close on him and usually cause between 6-7 knocked down/stunned/OoA's. If you can close with beastmen you can quickly put him out of his misery.

I completely understand where you are coming from though mweaver. Like 2 weeks ago I felt like ranged warbands were so overpowered that I was almost ready to quit my beasts. But now it is far from the truth, I see ranged warbands as gimped in most circumstances. If there is an objective other than fight each other, they don't have a prayer vs beastmen. If they are in a senario where they need to just fight us, they have a decent chance, but they only have 1 turn of shooting before you close on them if you do it right, and if you do that part correctly too, only like 3/4ths of their guys actually get to shoot at you.

Cover is your best friend, and armour is extremely useful vs ranged attacks, it gets cleaved in 2 when you hit melee, but vs ranged it REALLY keeps your heroes alive, especially guys like your bestigors, centigor, and chieftain, who can all get shaggy hide and a second arm with a shield. I take on average 14-16 hero crossbow shots, hitting on 2's and 3's and wounding on 5's and 6's, and 4-5 marksmen shots hitting on 3's and 4's wounding on 5's and 6's. The odds really are in your favor, just abuse the terrain and those ranged warbands will be screaming at you.
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PostSubject: Re: Beastmen vs ranged   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 11:05

misstype with my hero shots section, between 10, and 12 lol Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Beastmen vs ranged   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 11:08

Oh and saranor your friends reiklander youngblood is illegal lol, tell him to remove mighty blow reiklander youngbloods can't get any strength skills. Oh and also from what I remember I don't think even middenheim youngbloods can get strength skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Beastmen vs ranged   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 12:41

I have only run two beastman warbands. The first, long ago, was the original rules. They died a lot - it was a standing joke that any arrow that hit them rolled a "6" to wound and generally took them out of action with one shot. They were, frankly, cursed.

The more recent one is one of the weaker warbands in the six-way dust up, again mainly bad luck - although of a different sort. They are not losing an unusually large number of warriors, but a much higher than average number of their OOA guys turn up dead when I roll on the serious injury chart. The other weaker warband, orcs, has suffered from the same problem. Both have performed well in the actual games, but have been unable to expand numbers and kit as rapidly as the other four warbands (Dark Elves, Skaven, Undead, and Free Brotherhood).
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PostSubject: Re: Beastmen vs ranged   Today at 0:48

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