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 little help with faith in Warhammer

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Alex
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PostSubject: little help with faith in Warhammer   Thu 21 Jul 2011 - 20:34

Since I never played warhammer fantasy just mordheim I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to certain aspects of the fluff. My question is really about the religions of the old world. Since apparently there are more gods worshipped in the Empire than just Sigmar (Ulric, Taal, Manaan etc.) it would seem that the Empire isn't monotheistic. Would someone know if this is the case, do the citizens the also worship many gods at once for different thing? Like Taal for hunting, Manaan for water stuff and Sigmar for well whatever he gods over.

A second question if I may, do the cult/church of sigmar have saints? For some reason I have always seen sigmarites (and the whole empire) as somewhat lutheran tongue

I would appreciat some help with these somewhat odd questions

Alex
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Thu 21 Jul 2011 - 21:45

Yes a single citizen may worship several different gods in the same day, although most have a deity they favor as their main focus of worship. Sigmar is basically the Patron god of the Empire. Almost every imperial human, and many imperial dwarfs even worship Sigmar.

As for saints, it seems to be a regional thing. In general I do not think saints are venerated commonly (i believe sisters of sigmar are an exception, as are some of the many sub-cults). They may have them but for the Cult of Sigmar hero is a better term usually.

And these are NOT odd questions! They are great ones! If you can find a copy of the warhammer fantasy RPG books on religion or the Empire they have a TON of wonderful information!

Note: Cult of Sigmar = Church of Sigmar.
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Fri 22 Jul 2011 - 4:29

Great questions, and not stupid at all. These things are what makes the Warhammer world come alive! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Fri 22 Jul 2011 - 5:44

I believe that Sigmar is defined as the god of the people (he looks after them instead of an aspect of nature or war).

Everyone in the empire worships all the gods to some extent, although different regions worship different god more ie. Middenland mainly worships Ulric but also worships Manaan slightly, Ostland mainly worships Taal but slightly worships Sigmar etc.
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Eliazar
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Fri 22 Jul 2011 - 6:31

You should read werekin's great artivcle on priests: Miracle Workers.

It's got a ton of information in it. Apart from that, I think not everyone worships all the gods to some extend, but I guess they accept their exisstance (as they accept the existance of evil gods). Of course, ordinary people from the villages in the vast forests of the Empire might not even know any Gods but those they worship and a few from close by areas.

There are, of course, also sinister cults of Chaos, or those of Khaine and Strohmfels (in Marienburg, for example), as well as some believers in the Old Faith, a believe in nature (eg. the people of Albion). Before the coming of Sigmar, people worshipped gods like Taal etc., and some also adhered to the Old Faith.
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Alex
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Fri 22 Jul 2011 - 14:27

great answers! Thanks guys this will come handy cheers

the good thing about doing a couple of night shifts is that it frees up time for reading. study
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Alex
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Sat 23 Jul 2011 - 14:07

I have a couple of more questions for you guys.

Do all greenskins worship Gork and Mork? For some reason I picture the goblins only paying lipservice to Gork and Mork and in fact they would worship some kind of goblin pantheon. A bit like how voodoo came to be as a slave religion.

The skaven seem to only worship the Horned Rat (boring), but are the dark elves all officaly dedicated to Khaine? I remeber something about secret Slaanesh cults but do they also worship the old elf gods like Isha and the others?

Is there an empire god of magick? Since magick was banned for so long it seems unlikley. But after they started up the magick schools wouldn't some of the more pious wizards want to worship some god of their own? Perhaps some kind of "good" version of Tzeentch was invented?

Are there gods in Araby? Are these then the same as the ancient gods of Khemri?

That is all for now Laughing

Alex
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Sun 24 Jul 2011 - 16:34

I do think O&G only worship Gork and Mork, but the Goblins perhaps have their own "version" of them, i.e. have them more Goblinoid in their imagination. Also, as they present cunning (Mork) and strength (Gork) (I think, can't remember 100%), you also got both the main features of the Green characters present. However, the forest goblins worship the Great Spider.

The Dark Elves are officially Khaine worshippers, and I can't really see them worshipping any other Elf gods (unless there is another one which can be presented as evil as Khaine as the God of murder), as Dark Elves are pretty far beyond good and any morale and lust only for torture, pleasure, murder, etc. However, as you noted, there are some Slaanesh cults.

The people from Araby (and Cathay, for that matter) don't really have any official gods as far as I know... they don't really have much official fluff at all, so I suppose noone really bothered making up a pantheon for them, too. Supposedly, the Gods of Nehekhara were worshipped by the people who lived there, but as Nagash killed all of them, their faith died, too.
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 8:12

this might help:

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Old_World_pantheon

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Religion

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cult_of_Sigmar



and for Araby: they seem to have the warhammer version of Islam: "they worship a single god"
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Araby
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Alex
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 13:05

thank you all for the help. I'm just rediscovering (and in some cases discovering) all the stuff that made mordheim so cool Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Tue 2 Aug 2011 - 1:56

Alex wrote:
I have a couple of more questions for you guys.
Do all greenskins worship Gork and Mork? For some reason I picture the goblins only paying lipservice to Gork and Mork and in fact they would worship some kind of goblin pantheon. A bit like how voodoo came to be as a slave religion.
Alex

Even the Orcs don't really know :p. The general idea is that Gork is "fighty but cunnin'" and Mork is "cunnin' but fighty". This means the Orcs tend to worship Gork more, and Goblins worship Mork more. But as I said, there is a lot of disagreement about which God is which and what they are exactly, and this results in many tribal wars. Forest Goblins do indeed worship the Great Spider.

Alex wrote:
I
The skaven seem to only worship the Horned Rat (boring), but are the dark elves all officaly dedicated to Khaine? I remeber something about secret Slaanesh cults but do they also worship the old elf gods like Isha and the others?
Alex

The Worship of Khaine is the "official" Dark Elf religion. Many Slaaneshi cultsexist though, and Morathi made the worship of Slaanesh the prime religion for the duration of the Storm of Chaos.

Alex wrote:
Is there an empire god of magick? Since magick was banned for so long it seems unlikley. But after they started up the magick schools wouldn't some of the more pious wizards want to worship some god of their own? Perhaps some kind of "good" version of Tzeentch was invented?
Alex
Wizards and magic are still very much regarded with suspicion by the people of the Empire, so there won't be a general "god of magic". Wizards, having much more knowledge and understanding of the world, will probably still worship the gods of the Empire, but will have their own ideas about what these "gods" actually are (I'll explain below :p). If it is discovered a wizard turned to the Dark Gods, or if a wizard voices his own "heretical" opinions about the gods he'll be hunted down and destroyed. The Colleges of Magic know how flimsy their reputation is, so they won't allow one of their own to tarnish it.

Alex wrote:
Are there gods in Araby? Are these then the same as the ancient gods of Khemri?
Alex

I know very little of Araby, and nothing about their gods. I doubt they're the same gods as those from ancient Nehekhara. The people of Araby want to have nothing to do with the dreaded Tomb Kings (apart from the occasional treasure hunt). Also, Nagash severed the link between the god of Nehekhara and their people at one point, though I know not wether it had been restored (Khalida being cured from the vampire curse by the Asp Goddess wouldn't indicate that the connection was restored).


About the wizards of the Empire and the gods: almost all the gods in the warhammer world (exceptions being the Old Ones, the Lady of the Lake,..) are the same kind of thing: ideas given form in the Realm of Magic (Realm of Chaos or the Warp if you like calling it that) by the minds of living creatures. So basicly they are a kind of powerful daemon, just like the Chaos Gods. Only are the Chaos Gods more powerfull since they are nourished by basic emotions (hope, rage, despair and pleasure). The Empire Gods are less evil, because they are tought of as good guys. It's quite complicated and hard to explain :p.
A good example of how a god is formed is Sigmar. Sigmar was a mortal man, a very powerul one but still mortal. He was adored all over for forming the Empire and protecting mankind with his deeds. After he left and dissappeard people quickly started worshipping Sigmar as a god. He wasn't one, but people started a worship of him anyway. All this worship nourished the idea among men of "the god Sigmar" and this was reflected in the "Warp", either manifesting a new deity or empowering Sigmar's soul to the point of being a deity. And thus Sigmar became a god, in my theory at least :p.
So as long as people actually believe in something it becomes a kind of reality. An example is the tribal warpaint of the Savage Orcs. They believe so hard in the warpaint's protective powers that they actually do deflect blows.


I'm done now :p
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Alex
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PostSubject: Re: little help with faith in Warhammer   Mon 8 Aug 2011 - 12:59

thanks for all the help Very Happy

@ Alcaeus: great stuff! I like the thing about how belief in somethig strengthens it. Kind of reminds me of the Planescape:Torment Smile (which by the way is the best computer game ever!)
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