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 Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters

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ObsidianLord
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PostSubject: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Thu 9 Jun 2011 - 12:05

I'll explain the title for those who haven't already got it.

The parry rule is clear to all of us (i think), so nobody is likely to run a model with two or more swords (or two or more bucklers in case of multi-armed mutants).
The two-swords wielder is one of the most iconographic warriors in a fantasy enviroinment, almost like the sword-and-shield user and the staved wizard.

Having a sword and a buckler allow a model to reroll a failed parry attempt.
What do you think to extend this rule for two sword wielders too? And what if a three-armed mutant would be armed with any combination of three swords/bucklers?

And what if instead of the possibility to reroll, a model had a +1 bonus to parry for each item with that rule he is wielding beyond the first?

Discuss.
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BalrogTheBuff
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Thu 9 Jun 2011 - 13:43

I like the house rule that two swords gives the parry reroll. But I also played around with an idea of a Pair of Swords piece of Gear that was a single 15 gc item like weeping blades that counted as two swords in combat but could only be used together.

I don't play that way, but I really do like it.
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Thu 9 Jun 2011 - 13:46

we made it this way:

1 weapon with parry: normal parry
buckler: normal parry
2 weapon with parry: parry with reroll
1 weapon with parry and buckler: your choice, parry with reroll or you may parry a second attack

if you give a weapon with parry the same bonus a buckler gives you, than the buckler is useless, because you loose an attack comparing to the second weapon with parry.
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ObsidianLord
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Thu 9 Jun 2011 - 16:16

And for a multi-armed mutant with 4 swords? 4 rerolls are huge, so is the cost of such build (40+80 for the mutations, +40 for the weapons).
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Thu 9 Jun 2011 - 16:53

I second the notion that a buckler would be pretty useless if 2 swords give you a reroll, too. They cost a little more, but 5gc extra for an additional attack are not that much (except, of course, that you are playing with modified rules for dual wielding).
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Thu 9 Jun 2011 - 18:46

As it stands, there's some incentive to play a dual-sword wielder due to the Expert Swordsman skill. I suggest adding an additional skill to allow dual swords to re-roll.
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Fri 10 Jun 2011 - 3:11

We play that 2 swords give a reroll. No one has ever used a buckler anyway (parry actually isn't that good) so we don't mind that it becomes even more useless if you allow double swords a reroll.

As for a mutant with 4 swords: No! You may NEVER reroll a reroll. So even if it doesn't make sense, one reroll is all you get.
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Fri 10 Jun 2011 - 7:08

Hey, I think we had that as a skill in Sartosa:

Impenetrable Defense- When armed with two
swords or other parrying weapons, the warrior
gains a parry and a reroll, just as if he were
armed with a sword and a buckler.


It's elegant and simple... which means that Master most likely wrote it, not me Razz
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Fri 10 Jun 2011 - 7:20

We played 2 swords gave a re-roll for years. Sort of forgot it wasn't a real rule. Then we used Styro's Sartosa setting and went with the skill. We've been playing that way for a couple of years now.

Interestingly even though we are a sword heavy group with many models that use 2 swords, no one has actually used the skill since we made the change.

Bucklers are rarely seen either way.
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Fri 10 Jun 2011 - 7:24

I think it would be better if multiple weapons with parry granted a reroll and bucklers gave +1 to parry (in addition to granting parry as they do now). Not certain I would allow the +1 to stack for multiple parries, but just off the top of my head I would be willing to allow it. If someone wants to take take that many arms and then only use them for something that can't hit me they are welcome to do so, but it would probably need a bit of play-testing to make sure. After all, it is not *that* hard to make your attacks unparryable.

Sword: Grants parry
Buckler: Grants parry with +1 to parry roll (and +1 to armour value in melee if you are using that house rule).
Sword and Buckler: Parry at +1 with reroll
Sword and Sword: Parry with reroll.
Dwarf axe with rapier: Parry with reroll.
Weeping blades: Parry with reroll.
Swordbreaker with etc.: Parry with reroll.
And so on and so on.
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Fri 10 Jun 2011 - 9:37

In my Southlands setting (which is still coming, but slow due to process of buying a house!) I have Shields and Bucklers give a +1 to armor in melee. But two parrying weapons give the reroll or a parry weapon and buckler. Bucklers give the armor save bonus so still hopefully a good choice. But armor is a bit rarer in Southlands so I am going to need to get something to balance that.
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Fri 10 Jun 2011 - 10:12

Having seen these suggestions, I think I'm now in the "make bucklers better" camp. No one takes them as is, so whether you make shields a +2 save and bucklers a +1 AND reroll, or if you give bucklers the +1 to parry roll AND reroll, it ought to balance out.
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Fri 10 Jun 2011 - 20:00

In my group we have been using the shields-and-buckers-give+1-in-melee and still noone takes bucklers. Parry (or, even worse, just a reroll for a parry) is just too poo an ability to be be worth losing an attack for. And this is in a situation where the group is using dual wielders get -1 to hit . That being said, noone in my group really takes swords very much because mostly parry is not considered as good as another attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Mon 13 Jun 2011 - 0:29

We improved parry by ruling, that you can parry any one attack for which you roll higher than the to hit roll.

For example the warrior is hit with an 4 and a 6 you can still parry the 4 with a 5+ roll..
The Buckler gives a reroll and a 6+ armour save.

So parry is more usefull nowin our setting.

But you do not see many bucklers either. Only in combination with a spear or so.
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PostSubject: Re: Parry and redundancy against classic iconographic characters   Today at 11:08

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