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 Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings

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StyrofoamKing
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PostSubject: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Tue 24 May 2011 - 11:32

Now, I know that the concept of Chaos Halflings is a far-fetched one. I get that. The Old Ones designed the Halflings to be practically immune to the effect of Chaos. That being said, we all know that there are enough twisted individuals of power in the Warhammer World that if you say something can't be done, they don't see a rule, they see a challenge.

If the internet is to be trusted, the 1st Warhammer Roleplay book included a group of halflings that were trapped in warpstone prisons for years, the subject of direct experiments to warp them. I can imagine that halflings are immune to second-hand fallout from wyrd/warpstone, but direct injection / exposure? That might be too much for any mortal.

With that in mind, I'm thinking about a chaos halfling warband warped by skaven moulder engineers (not chaos cultists, as was in the original WFRP version.) I'm sure that skaven would love NOTHING so much as seeing if they can corrupt the incorruptable, peppering their meager rations with wyrdstone fragments and keeping them in tiny warpstone cages like veal.

Are these guys highly plausible / common? Hell no, I have no problem conceding that. There are three levels of warbands in the Wee War campaign, "Core", "Extended", and "Exotic." Chaos Halflings fall under "exotic", meaning their chances of actually showing up in the Moot are as moot as the Skink and Pygmy warbands... not bloody likely. Still, for the point of flavor and fun, I thought it'd be interesing.


Rules: still a little up in the air. Trying to kick them about. So far:

Hunger Pains - one of the few non-canon chaos halfling things out there was the Chaos Halfling Blood Bowl team (which is the seed of inspiration, I must confess.) They have halflings constantly being gnawed with hunger... I thought it might be an interested basis for their rules. Here's the version so far:

Crippling hungerAt the start of each or your turns, after all models have recovered, roll 1D6 for each Chaos Halfling. If the result is a natural 1, roll once on the Crippling Hunger chart.
1 – Hunger Pains – The Halfling suffers 1D3 S2 hits, with no armor save allowed. These will not cause critical hits.
2-5 – Indigestion – The Halfling may not move, shoot, or cast spells this turn. If attacked in hand to hand combat, he may fight back as normal.
6 – Black Hunger – The Halfling moves as quickly as possible to the nearest enemy model, adding +1D3” to his move. If this takes him into contact with an enemy model, it counts as a charge. When he rolls black hunger, a Halfling ignores fear. If he just stood up from being knocked down, he ignores the penalties, shrugging his injuries. Until the beginning of your next turn, he gains +1 additional attack (this is not doubled if the hero is frenzied.) The Black Hunger move counts as the halfling's move for this turn.

SKILLS
Greater Hunger – Whenever you roll on the Consuming Hunger chart, you treat a roll of 4-6 as “Black Hunger”.
Constant Temptation – Instead of rolling on the Consuming Hunger chart on a roll of 1, roll on the Consuming Hunger chart each turn. Ignore all rolls of “Indigestion” (meaning you may move, shoot, and cast as normal.)

(This means that, with two skills, you'd have a warrior that hurts himself each turn on a roll of 1, and on 4-6 ignores standing up, gains +1D3 inches, and +1 attack. Not too shabby.)

Stat Line: Still unsure about this. I can see it going one of several different ways:

Frenzied- their stats remain pitiful, but they get extra attacks (maybe the average stat line is A2.) They still suck at wounding stuff, but make up for it through the laws of probabilty.

Beastlike - Give them S3 and M5, and "run through woods". This gives them a sort of beastman-lite approach. Fast, deadly, and mutated. Could be fun (and would be the only S3, T2 unit in the campaign aside from Skinks), but is the least likely to occur fluff-wise (the more resistant a race is, the least obvious their mutations... just look at the Chaos Dwarves).

Chaos Warrior - A silly concept, but what if they were the wee equivalent to the old Chaos Warrior? High stats all around- WS4, BS4, I5, A2, Ld 9 . The only catch is that they're a weenie S2, T2. A strange idea, I confess, but the idea of heavily armored, half-sized chaos warriors is kinda hilarious, and probably the easiest to convert. (Just need some gobbo bodies with warrior helms.) Alternatively, the Chaos Dwarf minis would stand in great too (either the Assyrian ones or, even better, the old european ones.)

Need your help on this one, guys.
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Tue 24 May 2011 - 11:53

I like the idea of a feral group of Halflings running around with simple weapons! I think a combination of the Frenzied and Beast options would be the best way to go.

If I remember my Fluff right Moulder also experiements with implantation. What if the team has a type similar to your Chaos Raiders' guys with the chains and hooks and such? So most of them are the Frenzied type, but one unit is a hunched over clawed twisted feral halfling. Those could have the S3 and maybe use unarmed attacks like a ghoul?
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Tue 24 May 2011 - 12:36

Bordering on the same issues I have with chaos orcs, so with that in mind, I will refrain from going in too much on my take on the subject :-P
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Wed 25 May 2011 - 9:23

I have to agree, somewhat, with Tintin: Halflings were supposedly created by the Old Ones to be resistant to Chaos. I don't see this subset to be anywhere near common enough to warrant a warband.

It's a neat idea, I suppose, but it comes across as too mechanically similar to Skaven with the Black Hunger and stuff. And, as of right now, it's a bit one-dimensional. They're hungry and that's it.
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Wed 25 May 2011 - 10:24

What if it is not chaos taint? What if it is mostly Moulder manipulations? Just a totally insane group of feral halflings? Or some Khemri necromancy gone wrong and they are now halfling versions of Ghouls? Barely alive and needing flesh to eat to sustain themselves?
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Wed 25 May 2011 - 11:54

BalrogTheBuff wrote:
What if it is not chaos taint? What if it is mostly Moulder manipulations? Just a totally insane group of feral halflings? Or some Khemri necromancy gone wrong and they are now halfling versions of Ghouls? Barely alive and needing flesh to eat to sustain themselves?

Once you stretch a concept too far, you lose credibility. Sure, you could say "Oh, these happen to be some sort of never-before-heard-of Halfling Ghouls" or the like, but now you're completely beyond the boundaries of the background. Might as well start making a Transformers warband at that point. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Wed 25 May 2011 - 19:08

If you guys are reading my original text in italics and still think so, I completely understand if you don't like the concept. Thank you for your input, gentlemen, and look forward to your critiques in the future.

If you HAVEN'T read my text in italics (which basically says, "yeah, I know that chaos halflings are slightly against fluff, but not completely, and even then they wouldn't be common, but a lot of fun,") I would be very appreciative if you read that first. If you reread it and STILL feel that way, I understand, and you may have a darn good point.


JP: Black Hunger WAS the basis, for the rules, and I admit, it is a bit thin at the moment. However, I'm not presenting this as a finished product, but more of a brainstorming thread.

Balrog: I LIKE the flayerkin idea. That lets them have a unit of S3, T3, A2 units, but they have the penalty of no equipment, and no exp. The mindless Gluttons.
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Sat 28 May 2011 - 22:35

After much consideration, I realized that I really don't have the passion or inspiration to do this band. Nothing's really jumping at me, and that's a sign to shelf it. (Balrog: thanks for the suggestion, though, it was the only good thing going.)

However, I still like the "beastmen - halfling" idea, and am tempted to include them in an Ungor wee war band. (not LITERALLY halfling-beastmen, but super weak gor shooters) (Unlike most of the other warbands, which have a lot of 2s showing up, these would be closer to goblin stats.)

Also debating whether or not to include the Skaven Skyre group from Relics in the Wee War. Compared to the base book band, they look way underpowered, but that might be perfect for wee war. Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Sun 29 May 2011 - 0:34

I have always considered halflings to be evil, it not necessarily chaotic, ever since my early DnD days when our halfling player was the biggest backstabber going!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Sun 29 May 2011 - 22:07

hi guys i actually thought of making up a chaos halfling warband as well
i got the idea from here
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBLTeams/ChaosYum.html

Here is a basic layout ...

Max Members 15

Equipment

normal melee equipment
"how to eat" halfling cook book +1 warband member

Shooting only slings and throwing knifes (Halflings only)

heroes
1 Champion of Chao (Yum, or whatever undignified name the champion gotten)
0-1 Halfling Mayor (Has leader, extremely fat T4)
0-1 Halfling Spellcaster
0-2 Halfling Cooks (+1 warband member per cook)

Hired Swords
0-5 Fattuns (fat halfling's T3)
0-5 Warpig's (war boar same as orc)
Halflings

Special
All halfling have twisted nail like claws and start with skill similar to "Art of Silent Death"
if you lose game chaos champion will eat either 3 Halflings or 1 Fattuns and 1 halfling or 1 warpig
will post up ideas on basing the warband on either strength or immortality,
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Sun 29 May 2011 - 23:52

Phantasm: Glad to know someone else has had the thought other than me...

Again, I think the passion has left me, but if you want to use this thread or start your own, I'd be glad to give my two-cents on it. If it looks fun/balanced, I'll stick it in the wee-war campaign. Sound good?

Twisted nails: Not so sure about this. "Silent death" is pretty frickin' good to give to everyone. Maybe only certain units? Mayor & Cooks? Cooks and Fattuns?

If you want to use the consuming hunger rules, feel free, if not, no worries.
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Mon 30 May 2011 - 15:48

Twisted Nails would be the trade off skill for you picking halfling's, because the are crap at everything else and claws in bloodbowl was really useful but you were stuck with halflings.

this is roughly what the warband will be like THIS IS NOT A FINISHED WARBAND
i have not even thought of how monstrous the Champion will be yet...

what about the idea of two (or more) different warband's depending on what the chaos champion has promised the young halflings.
e.g.
Promise of Power all halfling's gain +1 S (so everyone goes from S2 to S3, and racial max is now S4)
Heroes may pick Strength skills
If you Lose the game the Chaos Champion Demands a Sacrifice 3 Halflings or 1 Fattuns and 1 Halfling or 1 Warpig are removed from the warband.

Promise of Immortality Heroes may pick Carnival of Chaos skills
If you Lose the game the Chaos Champion Eats Either 3 Halflings or 1 Fattuns and 1 Halfling or 1 Warpig are removed from the warband.
If this Chaos Champion ever goes OOA, then D6 Chaos Halflingettes spew forth from his body. They are faster and nimbler than the ordinary chaos halflings after a long slimming cure in the Champion's belly where naught is to eat except other chaos halflings.

Promise of Wealth all halfling's gain +1Ld
Heroes may pick Academic skills
If you Lose the game the Chaos Champion Demands 3 Halflings or 1 Fattuns and 1 Halfling are sold into slavery to compensate for the financial loss gain 5xD6 per halfling sold (fat slaves sell for the same price as skinny ones).

Promise of Pleasure all halfling's gain +1I (this also increases their racial max by 1)
Heroes are immune to Psychology (leader must still make rout check)
If you Lose the game the Chaos Champion Demands a Punishment 3 Halflings or 1 Fattuns and 1 Halfling are removed from the warband.

All halfling heroes may choose from Shooting, Speed, and special halfling rules

heroes
1 Champion of Chao (Yum, or whatever undignified name the champion gotten)

1 Halfling Mayor Cost: 50 GCs
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Mayor 3 3 3 3 4 2 2 1 6
Special Rules
Leader
Crippling hunger: The dark desires within pull and tear at the halfling urges roll a D6 each turn and consult Crippling hunger Chart
Twisted Nails: In hand-to-hand combat, the Halfling can fight with his gnarled claws without any penalties and counts as having two weapons (i.e., +1 attack). however this attack is gives the opponent a +1 armour save.
Bloated Foulness:Already included in profile.

Halfling Hedge Wizard Cost: 40 GCs
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Hedge Wizard 4 2 3 2 2 1 3 1 5
Special Rules
Wizard: starts with 1 chaos ritual
Crippling hunger: The dark desires within pull and tear at the halfling urges roll a D6 each turn and consult Crippling hunger Chart
Twisted Nails: In hand-to-hand combat, the Halfling can fight with his gnarled claws without any penalties and counts as having two weapons (i.e., +1 attack). however this attack is gives the opponent a +1 armour save.

0-2 Halfling Cooks Cost: 35 GCs
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Cook 4 3 3 2 3 1 3 1 6
Special Rules
Cook:+1 warband member per cook
Crippling hunger: The dark desires within pull and tear at the halfling urges roll a D6 each turn and consult Crippling hunger Chart
Twisted Nails: In hand-to-hand combat, the Halfling can fight with his gnarled claws without any penalties and counts as having two weapons (i.e., +1 attack). however this attack is gives the opponent a +1 armour save.


Henchmen
0-5 Fattuns Cost: 25 GCs
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Fattuns 4 3 3 2 3 1 3 1 5
Special Rules
Crippling hunger: The dark desires within pull and tear at the halfling urges roll a D6 each turn and consult Crippling hunger Chart
Twisted Nails: In hand-to-hand combat, the Halfling can fight with his gnarled claws without any penalties and counts as having two weapons (i.e., +1 attack). however this attack is gives the opponent a +1 armour save.

0-5 Warpig's Cost: 90 GCs
Profile M WS BS S T WI A Ld
War Pig 7 3 0 3 4 1 3 1 3
Special Rules
Ferocious Charge: The Warpig attacks with +2S when charging, due to their bulk.
Thick Skinned: The thick skin and matted fur of the boar makes him very hard to wound. Boars confer an armour save of 5+.

Halflings Cost: 15 GCs
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Halflings 4 2 3 2 2 1 3 1 5
Special Rules
Crippling hunger: The dark desires within pull and tear at the halfling urges roll a D6 each turn and consult Crippling hunger Chart
Twisted Nails: In hand-to-hand combat, the Halfling can fight with his gnarled claws without any penalties and counts as having two weapons (i.e., +1 attack). however this attack is gives the opponent a +1 armour save.[b]
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Tue 31 May 2011 - 7:51

Nails: I originally told you how "silent death" was too strong... well, I think the current version of nails is too WEAK. So, the goldilocks in between would be that the nails let them attack without penalty or bonus. (Which, if you think of a dagger [with penalty] is 2c, and club [with a bonus] is 3gc, then a "no penalty" attack would be about 2.5 gc. So, two clawed attacks increases the cost of the warriors by 5gc, (minus 2gc if they don't start with free dagger.) So, a freebie of 3gc per person is hardly broken, especially with the much lowered Ld for most of the Chaos halfs.

Sacrifice: Sadly, the "if you lose" rule is WAAAAY too detrimental. Also, think of it this way: they are far more likely to lose in a multiplayer game than in two player. We don't want them to dread social interaction. (Besides, unless playing in a Wee War campaign, I suspect these guys will be losing a LOT.)

My suggestion:
Feasting: After each game, the warband must eat one body. This can be from a dead hero or henchman from your warband, or an opposing warband. If no one died in the previous game, they may eat a living model that they come across (Straggler, Prisoners, captured enemy hero.) If no living or dead model is found, they will eat a henchman of your choice. He is removed from the warband. His equipment is gone too (no doubt causing some halfling some indigestion!)

If you want to be mean, you can make it a random henchman... so you may lose a cheap 15gc halfling or pig, but also risk losing a good one. Three halflings (45gc worth) is waaay too much. Ogres don't have to pay that much. This way, they are rewarded if they thrash their opponent (causing them casualties), and avoid too much suffering is they lose people (as they literally "eat" their losses). I'm a fan of not kicking a losing warband when it's down.

Champion: Why not use the champion from the Marauder warband?
M WS BS S T W I A LD
4 5 3 4 4 1 5 1 8

Added rule: Will of the Gods: The Champion is not here by choice, but by the decree of the dark gods. If he is removed from the board by the Chaos Ritual "Eye of God", roll 1D6 after the game.. on a roll of X, the Gods have decided that he is needed somewhere else, and leaves the warband.

Mayor: Make him 0-1. Only the leader should be "necessary".

Mayor & Cooks: Kinda inconsistent fluff... are they savage monsters, roaming the land for prey, or a simple halfling village that hides a dark secret? If the former, the fluff behind "mayor" and "cook" doesn't fit. You'd need something savage.
Mayor: elder, corrupter, alpha
Cook: Cannibal, butcher, renderer

If going with the secret village approach, the champion doesn't seem to fit the theme.

Fat'uns: Not quite worth 25gc at the moment. What if they had the halfling skill, Layers of Fat?
Layers of Fat: The Halfling has gained mountains of flab during his vast experience of eating fine foods and his thick bulk could swallow a sword whole! The Halfling always has a basic saving throw of 6 regardless of the enemy warrior's strength and on top of any armour he already wears.

Pigs: I'm assuming you forgot to change the price... if mounted, they are worth 90gc. Otherwise, I'd put them at 25ish. Also, I think they normally have a save of 6+, they just grant 5+ to a rider (when added to the +1 for being mounted). Of course, if you did give them 5+, they'd kinda prove to be pretty darn good. Might be worth 30gc.

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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Tue 31 May 2011 - 14:52

Nails: is really just a bonus to keep costs down, because you will be losing henchmen you probably won't be equipping them.but i do agree it is possibly too weak, i don't think the attacks should cut through armor, i try to imagine an angry fat child with pointy teeth and bird like nails on their stubby fingers attacking me to try and decide what bonus's they should have maybe put the critical on a 5-6 back in as they have the negative of a +1 enemy armor save.

Sacrifice: Yeah i think you are right in it being way too detrimental, and should be less( ie only 2 halflings or 1 fattun). the promise of immortality and wealth arn't too detrimental but should still only be loosing 2 halflings) i remember a couple of blood bowl seasons ago i friend of mine took chaos halflings they were very powerful but the Champion of Chaos killed a halfling more often then not and this was really gutting for player continuously having to buy rookies. i want any player willing to play chaos halflings to have the same dread, hey its the price you pay for being evil.

Champion: yep perhaps even giving them marks dependent on what they promise the halflings

Will of the Gods: i think that this will cripple the chaos halflings as you will never get a 90xp champion, the champion should always be the strongest in the warband it would just be embarrassing to constantly have newbie champions.

Mayor: the mayor is the leader. the chaos champion very rarely bothers to speak to the annoying little deviants .

Mayor & Cooks: I really like Corrupter and Butcher, all 6 of the names you suggested have a good feel for the warband

secret village: i was thinking..... that when the comet hit Mordheim, smaller fragments of the comet were showered across the empire to remote locations , some of these shards happened to fall halfling community's. Months passed and the once placid halflings began to crave their desires with an all consuming hunger. When the wandering chaos warrior stumbled to the halfling village he had come to an orgy of bloodshed and destruction, instantly the fighting quelled and the halflings denounced the mystical giant as their god yum. The Chaos warrior looked perplexed, he would of finished of the job and slaughtered the rest of the village if it wasn't for a crippling vision from his patron god telling him to lead these diminutive creatures to glory.

Layer of fat: Awesome!

Pigs: maybe 50-70gc i would be happy to pay that much, i did give them a 5+ armor save (save as ymir) as they would likley have a crude metal barding with spikes being that they are war pigs
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PostSubject: Re: Wee Warband: Chaos Halflings   Tue 31 May 2011 - 18:24

Will of the Gods: Well, if it's a 1, it's a pretty small chance. Also, the solution is easy: don't cast Eye of God on the Champion. He's enough of a powerhouse on his own without having to bulk up further.

Pigs: Well, you'd be the only one happy to pay that much. The reason they cost 90 is 'cause people can ride 'em. Compare to a Wardog (15gc)

M +1 = +5 gc
WS -1 = -5gc
S -1 = -5gc
T +1 = +5gc
I -1 = -5gc

Special - +2 on charge - +5gc
Armor - +10gc (that's how much it costs on the lizardman)

So that takes it to about 25gc
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