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DRD1812
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PostSubject: Wyrdstone Tokens   Tue 24 May 2011 - 9:32

Two models are in close combat. One of them is holding a wyrdstone token, and that model is taken OoA . Does the model that killed him instantly pick up the dropped token, or does he have to wait until his next movement phase to "move into contact" with the wyrdstone?

Caveat: What if there is more than one model involved in the combat? Would an ally or an enemy pick up the token? Would they have to wait until the combat was over?


Last edited by DRD1812 on Tue 24 May 2011 - 14:42; edited 1 time in total
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Mephysto
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Tue 24 May 2011 - 14:05

Since simply moving into contact with a counter counts as picking it up, I would assume that already being in contact with a counter also means picking it up, so I would vote for Instantly.
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WarbossKurgan
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 6:05

Me too.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 6:57

We have always played "instantly", for the reasons Mephysto gives.

In the second case, I think the shard would stay on the ground until the combat is resolved.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 8:29

Last question then: Could a model not involved in the combat move into contact with the token -- staying out of combat all the while -- and grab himself some wyrdstone?

I would venture "yes," but I'd love to hear opinions.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 10:18

I thought you couldn't be within 1" of an enemy model or a combat unless you charge in? So unless you are using HUGE tokens (which then they should be worth more!) it should be impossible to move into the combat. I would argue that the wyrdstone is immediately picked up anyways.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 10:24

BalrogTheBuff wrote:
I thought you couldn't be within 1" of an enemy model or a combat unless you charge in?

I can't seem to find that rule. What part of the book is it in?

As for instantly picking up wyrdstone in combat, in your opinion which model gets the token? The ally of the dead wyrdstone carrier or the enemy?
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 10:45

I would let good old D6 decide between everybody who is in direct base contact at the time the model in question gets put out of action.

Alternatively, the one with the highest Initiative (rolling in case of a tie) could grab it.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 11:30

Use the Blood Bowl rules!!! That would be awesome! I would say any model in base contact with the victim from the warband that takes the foe OOA gets the chunk. If it was from another affect like a ranged attack or spell or no model from that warband can carry it then I would say they use a scatter die or randomize.

Ok guys new scenario idea: Warbands find a giant chunk of wyrdstone. To carry it takes one hand. They had been working together so are lined up in a open area when they start arguing and a fight starts!
They must get it back to their side, which is blocked by the other warband! You can throw it 4" etc...
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 14:27

Damn Balrog...you lolsy. I hope to see full rules for that scenario soon. Smile

I think I like mweaver's ruling: Wait until the combat is over. Winner gets the rock. Keeps it simple.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 15:50

"Last question then: Could a model not involved in the combat move into contact with the token -- staying out of combat all the while -- and grab himself some wyrdstone?"

I would think not - the warriors are still fighting over where it dropped - it would be difficult for another guy to casually wander up and take it.

I think Balrog is right about the 1" rule, although I didn't find it with a quick look.



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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 16:00

In my circle we simply use RAW (or what we believe RAW to be, which is pretty close Razz). If a model carrying a token goes OOA it is dropped where it is. In order to pick up a token you have to move into contact with it and if you cannot move you cannot pick up the token.

We haven't come across any ambiguities, and it often leads to an entertaining situation of a single shard getting picked up and fought over multiple times.

We did, however, rule that you can pick up a token on a charge. Slightly counter-intuitive, but it means that when a token has just been dropped in front of you, you have a choice. You can either: a) pick it up and move your normal move distance away, or b) pick it up and charge one of the others fighting. This encourages the picking up of treasure and then sticking around rather than merely the picking up and hoofing it.

As always, YMMV.

I think the 1" thing might be from WHFB - I don't remember using it in Mordheim.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Wed 25 May 2011 - 18:04

About the 1" thingy, the most explicit passages I found in this regard are:
LRB, p. 11 wrote:
Models cannot be moved into hand-to-hand combat except by charging any move that brings a warrior into hand-to-hand combat is a charge by definition.
and
LRB, p. 18 wrote:
Models whose bases are touching are engaged in hand-to-hand combat. This can only happen once a warrior has charged his enemy, as models are otherwise not allowed to move into contact.
respectively, both of which do not tell you explicitly to stop at 1" away - only the passage regarding models that failed their Stupidity test does so:

LRB, p. 23 wrote:
The warrior moves directly forward at half speed in a shambling manner. He will not charge an enemy (stop his movement 1" away from any enemy he would have come into contact with).

So by generalising from this case (and taking into account the WHFB heritage Lord 0 mentions), one could argue that no move other than a charge can bring a warrior nearer than 1" to an enemy. The rules surely do not explicitly substantiate this kind of 'control zone', but implicitly, they indeed seem to assume it.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Thu 26 May 2011 - 5:03

As Lord O says, Warhammer has the 1" rule - maybe your group are using it as an "unspoken" houserule? (We did this with the 7th ed hand weapon + shield armour save bonus and "rolling a 7 to hit", when we realised those rules weren't in Mordheim we added them to our houserules list!)
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PostSubject: Re: Wyrdstone Tokens   Thu 26 May 2011 - 5:47

I think you are probably right - the Warhammer rule is the one kicking around in the back of my head.
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