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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 1:05

So, i finished nearly half of the warband.

I have one question regarding hired swords: There is no possibility to hire a mage or witch or anything else. I know they have a damsel but i was looking forward using a warlock of the sages and mages supplement as hired sword. Was this planned or can it be corrected?

I have not found the possible hired sword list of the original bretonian warband in TC8 butmaybe there was a clarification in a later TC
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 9:24

Here's an impromptu list for the Chapel Guard:

Arabian Merchant
Bard
Beast Hunter
Beggar
Cathayan Merchant
Coachman
Duelist
Dwarf Pathfinder
Trollslayer
Elf Mage
Elf Ranger
Freelancer
Halfling Knight
Halfling Scout
Halfling Thief
Human Scout
Leviathan Hunter
Muleskinner
Nomad Scout
Ogre Bodyguard
Pathfinder
Pit Fighter
Roadwarden
Shadow Warrior
Snake Charmer
Swashbuckler
Swordsmith
Witch
Witch Hunter (will let himself be hired by the warband... think of him as an overzealous Battle Pilgrim!)

If using the Sages and Mages rules, you may only have a Warlock with the Lores of Light, Life, Beasts, or Heavens.

You may hire a Witch with Charms and Hexes, Lore of Life, or Prayers of the Lady (reminder: you cannot have a Hired Sword share a spell list as a another hired sword or hero, so you can only have a Witch with Lady's Prayers if your Damsel is using a replacement spell list, like Beasts, Heaven, Life, or Shaylla Prayers.)
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Wed 28 Sep 2011 - 11:07

Hmm ok, this list is different from the existing one of the pdf, but it is great to hire one additional mage user.
list of pdf:
Hired Swords: Bretonnian Chapel Guards may hire the following Hired Swords: Arabyan Merchant, Bard, Beast Hunter, Dwarf Pathfinder, Dwarf Treasure Hunter, Elf Mage, Elf Ranger, Freelancer, Halfling Scout, Human Scout, Kislev Ranger, Mule Skinner, Nomad Scout, Ogre Bodyguard, Pathfinder, Road Warden, Runesmith Journeyman, and Wood Elf Hunter

In the old one there is also the kislev ranger allowed. How do you decided which hired sword is on this list? Did you use the sword of empire supplement of werekin as basis?

And if this is the final hired sword list would you please so kind to update the pdf?

Thanks a lot

I am looking forward to play these warband soon
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 7:44

Hmm. I'm going to have to amend the earlier list. I guess I can fudge things in favor of the Kislev Ranger, but I'll stick with removing the Runesmith. To me, Breton = elf friend, Empire = Dwarf Friend.

As far as what fits, it's really a matter of balance and fluff. A single Tilean Marksmen wouldn't break a Chapel warband, but it's really against the no-missile preferences of the Lady, so out he goes. The Warlock (as written) uses a harsh and corruptive magic, which seems out of sway with the gentle power of the Damsels. A Witch Hunter would be out of place in a normal Bret warband, but with the zealous Battle Pilgrims in this group, it seems to fit.

I also forgot to include the Sartosa and Ethlorien's Hired Swords from the list... silly me!
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 11:24

Ah this makes it clearer for me.

Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Wed 9 Nov 2011 - 15:45

So, I am hoping to take this warband for a whirl. Here's my shot at a starting warband. The questing knight absolutely had to be a classic knight in armor for fluff reasons. I was tempted by a warhorse, but the rules are just so clunky, and what do I even do with my knight once he gets there?

On the tabletop? A slow advance with the assorted knights in a shield wall(we play with shields providing a +1 armor save), the 2 squires providing backup and flank support. The 3 bowmen and the 3rd squire will soften up incoming enemies as best they can, and try and deter the enemy from staging a shooting war.

First move in the campaign? Try and get one of those squires knighted, then fill in the gap he leaves with some hard hitting pilgrims.

Spare gp: 0

Questing Knight - Heavy Armor, Shield, Sword
Damsel - Hammer, Dagger, Lady's Favor
Knight Errant - Sword, Shield
Knight Errant - Light Armor, Sword, Shield
Knight Errant - Light Armor, Mace, Shield

2x Squire - Mace, Dagger
Squire - Bow, hammer, dagger
3x Peasant Bowmen - Longbows, daggers

Also, I just had an idea for a fun variant: Knights Panther, replacing the damsel with a priest of Sigmar perhaps.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Wed 9 Nov 2011 - 17:32

Foot vs. mounted: I can understand your dilemma, but as I have 3-4 knights on foot, if I ever get a chance to run these guys myself, I'd go with the on-foot rout myself. Having one Errant on a horse might make sense, as he can sweep in and pick up treasure and stuff, but putting my leader on one seems a risky effort- he's easier to hit, and if moves too far away, I've lost my leader (and the only way to keep the peasant bows in line!)

Please please please, tell me how it goes... I'm eager for feedback!

Knights of the Panther- absolutely. I can see these guys fitting the Panther's quite well. See the Miracle Workers pdf by Werekin for ideas about switching in prayer casters. (Although, I'm also eager to see how the damsel works too, so I selfishly wish you try this list first Razz )
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Thu 17 Nov 2011 - 18:55

I just got back from the first round of our campaign. Unfortunately one of our players had to leave early so we only got one game in this time. The Chapel Guard faced up against a fairly shooty Reiklander warband. The scenario was Breakthrough from the main rulebook, and the Bretonnians were defending (praise the Lady! I would not want to have gone the other way) My impressions are as follows:

The knights were pretty much unstoppable this round. It might have just been luck, but the combination of lady's favor and high armor saves make them very hard to take down. I kept them in a tight group for the entire match and they were pretty much invincible. They did have a tendency to fall off of raised platforms when shot at though, so keeping them at ground level would probably be ideal.

Squires are really in danger for this warband. I was trying to use them as back up for my knights, finishing off opponents they invariably knocked down. However, once my opponent realized he wasn't making any headway on the knights, his bowmen made pincushions of my squires, hoping to force a rout. All 3 were injured, two of them died, probably thanks to their role as henchmen. This is perfect from a fluff perspective of course, but not helpful for getting that 6th hero!

The maiden held her own in combat. As I mentioned earlier, the Lady's Favor was a great boon to my knights, plus she made a mess of some unsuspecting youngbloods. It's kind of odd that she is technically better at fighting than the knight errants thanks to that extra point of initiative though. Maybe taking her strength down to 2 and decreasing her cost accordingly might be in order. If you think about it, the value of lucky charms for all of my heroes is pretty immense.

Peasant bowmen were grossly inaccurate all game, but they did keep the enemy scurrying forward into cover instead of hanging back and avoiding my knights.

I didn't have any grail pilgrims, but I almost feel like an extra tank style warrior type might be excessive.

I won the round decisively, but both of us agreed that the warbands were pretty balanced. I just played my strengths (resilient heavy infantry) better than he did his (high accuracy shootiness).

After the battle, nothing special to report. Purchased two new squires to replace the old ones.

Don't know if any of this will be helpful, but I am really enjoying your warband. If I can rake together the funds, I might buy some parts and actually make models for this group, rather than using paper cutouts...
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Fri 18 Nov 2011 - 3:42

I read, "This is perfect from a fluff perspective of course, but not helpful for getting that 6th hero!", and all I could think of was:

THUNK! "Message for you sir!"


Hadn't thought about the fact that she's better than the Errants... maybe she's WS2, I4? That way, she's faster than an errant, but hits worse.

Glad you got a chance to run them... I feel a bit jealous! Let me know how they keep working! king
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Fri 18 Nov 2011 - 9:15

Hahaha, yeah, but sadly these squires didn't get better!

It really is a pleasure. They really have a unique feel - kind of like the dwarves, but without all that toughness, so the equipment is actually essential.

WS 2 sounds good, but to keep the damsels competitive I would add spears to their purchasable equipment. They are supposed to be mightier than the average knight errant, and a spear would really compliment their high initiative. It also matches the GW models for them, which is always nice...

Next matchup is monday, so more news then.

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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Fri 18 Nov 2011 - 10:18

Alright, alright, you convinced me. I'll add spears to the Damsel.

I think I'll add it to the Pilgrims and Bowmen too, so if you wanted to use Men at Arms models for either, you can.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Fri 18 Nov 2011 - 14:34

As I've just bought a knight, damsel and 5 pilgrims to start this warband I am very happy indeed I can now take a spear for my spear armed Damsel Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Fri 18 Nov 2011 - 21:28

You might want to switch a few of the pilgrims to squires - otherwise, you're stuck with no replacement heroes. (Pilgrims are stuck as henchmen.)
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Sun 20 Nov 2011 - 16:39

Adding the spear to the bowmen gives them a nice levied peasants feel. Still, I would not put my bowmen anywhere near the front line with that low LD of theirs, especially if there are any fear causing enemies in the fray.

Sounds like 5pointer is just starting to collect the models for this group. I don't think many people at all would consider starting with 2 heroes and 5 henchmen, no matter how well armored.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Sun 20 Nov 2011 - 18:26

Bowmen- yes, there Ld is terrible (I wanted them to be 15gc, but to make them equal in value to a goblin, that meant their ld drops to a new low!) Of course, if they're in range of your leader, you can use his (which fits, really... the nobility isn't just for show in Bretonnia, they tell people what to do!)
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Mon 21 Nov 2011 - 15:58

So, I just played against a dwarf treasure hunters warband. Squires died in a hail of crossbow bolts as per usual. The lady managed to climb up a giant tower in the center of the board and then leap across to a different roof top and take out two thunderers. The knights got stuck in against the dwarves main combat element. The dwarves couldn't get past the knights armor, and the knights couldn't get past the dwarves toughness. The bowmen were generally lackluster and failed to hit anything at all throughout the entire match, despite starting off with easy access to a nice sniping position.

After the battle, the questing knight gained step aside (for just a little more hard-to-kill factor), the lady gained WS (returning her to 3!), and one of the knight errants learned shield bash. I am looking forward to testing that out.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Mon 21 Nov 2011 - 16:28

Sounds sweet so far. Bad luck with the squires. It could have gone a lot worse- with dwarf axes, gromril weapons, and lots of handguns, he could have eaten through your armor like butter.

To help you out with the dwarves (and any other high T guys), why not try a morning star or broadsword? They give you S4, and still let you use the shield at the same time.

Shield bash: hardly that amazing of a skill, it only gives you +1 club attack at -1 Strength. Much worse than an upgrade, but it never hurts to have an extra attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Tue 22 Nov 2011 - 12:57

Thank you for your concern, but as Horatio correctly surmised, they were simply my first purchases (due to some very nifty purchases on eBay Smile )

In fact, today I've just bought 5 squires and the bits to make 3 Knights Errant, so the warband will soon be complete (unbuilt and in the queue for attention, but complete).
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Tue 22 Nov 2011 - 14:52

Fortunately the dwarves hadn't faired so well in the first round and were lacking firepower or gromril armor. I could see things going very badly for my knights had they had actual gunpowder weapons. I think I will grab a broadsword on at least a couple of my knights. I can't really see a disadvantage to it.

Yeah, I mostly got shield bash for the fun of it. It seemed to fit the particular knight's character. Sir Aurelien has a tendency towards solving his problems with blunt instruments.

All of the parts for my real, plastic-and-metal warband are in the mail right now. I am expecting to recieve my 5 heroes and a Men at Arms set sometime next week. I just found a really good local gamestore that cuts the prices on GW stuff pretty significantly.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Tue 22 Nov 2011 - 22:42

@ Horatio:

Thanks for posting yor battle experiences.

My starting warband is ready.

You can see them here if interested:
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t5410-wip-bretonnian-chapel-guard-new-pics-11-october-2011


I have not tested them yet, because i finally was able to start my arabian nomads warband in the Khemri setting the last time.

I bought heavy armour for every knight, mainly because of the minis.

It is good to read that your armour choice also works.

i hope you post your next battle experiences too.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Sun 1 Jan 2012 - 23:53

So i played my fist game yesterday.

It was an Empire in Flames setting treasure hunt. The special target was a cave in the middle of the board which was filled by some beatsmen.

I lost the game, but iwas able to collect two treasures. The tresure of the beastmen was not collected by me or the Ostlander warband.

My questing knight went OOA although he had the guiding vision on himself. The gor simply hit and wounded.

I also used broadsword on two knights errant and two handed weapons on the rest of the knights. It is bad to get the charge and not attack first.

2 questions came to my mind during the game.

1. Guiding vision spell does not have a range. It is unusual ism't it.

2. The impetious rule of the knights errant needs a clarification, that they do not need to charge opponents if they can't see them, or that they would jump down a floor to get to them.

Yesterday my knights attacked an engaged opponent which thea could see instead of running around a corner and making an Ini test.

The warband will be played more.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Wed 4 Jan 2012 - 3:55

1. Guiding Vision - Yes, it has endless range. I stole this spell from the Witch's spells. Personally, I don't mind it going all over the battleground- I don't think it's completely broken.

2. I will clarify the whole "around corners" thing, but I love the "diving charge". I think that fits perfectly with a reckless young knight- diving down a deep hole despite his leader's urging.

EDIT: I'll post a tweaked "impetuous" later today.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Wed 4 Jan 2012 - 10:00

Here's a rewrite:

Impetuous - During each Movement Phase, plot out where a Knight Errant will move with markers, rather than moving the model himself. After you have decided where he is going to move (or not move), see if there are one or more enemy models within charge range that are not knocked down or stunned. If so, the Errant must immediately declare a charge against one of those models instead, ignoring the move you plotted. If you wish, you may choose to have the Knight take a leadership test (using the Leader's Leadership if he's within range.) If the test is passed, he is not required to charge, and may move or not move as you intended. For Impetuous charges, he may only charge models that he can detect (ex. test to see if he can detect an opponent around a corner.) When making an impetuous charge, the Knight passes all fear tests or any other psychology tests to would prevent him from charging. If the only target in range can only be reached by a diving charge, then the knight must attempt a diving charge. An Impetuous knight will never be forced to charge a knocked down or stunned opponent, as it is considered dishonorable. A knight does not suffer Impetuous if he is currently in combat or is knocked down/stunned.

(Why the markers? Because it hit me: if you're checking for opponents, then you can tell if an opponent is in range before you decide what to do with the knight. Not quite fair.)

While I’m at it, might as well clarify “Virtue of Purity.”

Virtue of Purity – The knight may never voluntarily leave combat, unless he is knocked down. He ignores All Alone and any other mundane effect that would cause him to leave combat or flee. Magical spells and effects that would cause him to flee (ex. Dread of Aramar) affect him as normal.
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Fri 6 Jan 2012 - 13:05

Ok the rework makes it easier. I also like the idea with the token.

One question is left: Is there a limit for the diving charge height?

A jump out of more than 4" is suicide for a knight. Only 25% chance for sucess is just too small for a must jump, isn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Bretonnian Chapel Guard   Fri 6 Jan 2012 - 15:34

Diving Charges: I will go by the test book ruling here:

Warriors can make a maximum diving charge of 6".

Thus, if it's more than 6", the knight can't dive and is not "within charge range".

Is more than 4" suicide? Couldn't tell you. However, knights make terrible snipers, so I see little reason to take them off the ground in the first place. Laughing
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