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 The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?

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Lookinglass
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PostSubject: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 19 May 2011 - 9:02

Hi there,

I'm starting a new Mordheim campaign and I'm set on playing with a Goblin Warband, but I don't know which one!

The three I'm considering are: Terry Maltman's Night Goblin Warband, Pathfinder Dubstyles Night Goblin Warband, and the Forest Goblin Warband from Nemesis Crown.

Which, in your opinion, is the most balanced?

And which plays the best? Each seem to have really enticing aspects that the others don't have!

Apologies for the many questions.

Lookinglass.

(tl;dr Which is the most fun and balanced goblin warband for a classic mordheim setting?)

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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 19 May 2011 - 9:15

Edit: Welcome to the forum!
I am familiar with Pathfinder's Night Goblins and the Forest Goblins, where is Terry's warband found? (If it's the one from Mordheimer, then I have looked at it.)

I have no interest in Night Goblins so I have only played the Forest Goblins. I find them challenging and versatile. Currently I have based my pirate goblins on that warband.

Balanced? I don't understand the question. Balanced in what way or to what? Other warbands?
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 19 May 2011 - 11:19

To stray from the topic of balanced goblin warbands, there's also my completely untested Goblin Raiders (aka vanilla goblins) Viking

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t4541-wee-warband-goblin-raiders
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 19 May 2011 - 16:12

@ Von Kurst:

Thanks for the welcome Smile Been stalking around here for a while, so thought I'd get involved!

Terry Maltman's is the Mordheimer one.

By balanced I mean not overpowered/broken when playing with the official warbands. Also, I'm aware that the Mordheimer Night Goblin list was originally designed for the Karak Azgal setting, and the Forest Goblins list for a wooded setting, so I wondered how they would work in a classic Mordheim cityscape.

I definitely don't want anything that is awkward gamewise. But at the same time I obviously want something reasonably competitive Very Happy

The Forest Goblin list does sound great, and proxy models is a good idea! What do you reckon to Blowpipes? I like the idea of a good stealthy assault Razz

In general I'm leaning toward Pathfinder D's Warband as it's a really creative list, very Night Goblinesque.

@ StyrofoamKing:

I'll definitely have a look at the list, thanks Smile

But heck, more goblins! I've got more options than I can shake a Madcap Mushroom at.
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 19 May 2011 - 16:38

Actually I have no idea as I've always played the Forest Goblins in their Lustrian home or on the docks of Sartosa. For Mordheim I would be more partial to the Night Goblin list as well.

Competitive? Great in the jungle. Give them 3 heroes with Weapons Master and 3 blunderbusses and they can make any lubber in Sartosa step back a pace.

Blow pipes...I do not understand how those were supposed to work. I've only ever taken the skink Hired Sword and he is usually killed shortly after attempting to wound someone with the useless thing. I would recommend maxing out the gits with throwing knives. They can wipe out an enemy skirmish line if they get lucky.
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 19 May 2011 - 16:46

Anyone playing with Gobbo warbands needs to get a life. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 19 May 2011 - 16:54

@ Von Kurst:

Pity about the blowpipes. Might still give them a go with one (expendable) Brave - will call him Stinkaimma Blowwpot. Cheers for the advice on throwing knives Smile

What models did you use for the Forest Goblins? Or did you just do a counts-as system?

@ Werekin:

Haha. Leave us tiny greenskins alone Razz
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 19 May 2011 - 21:12

Just to make your life harder, one MORE Night Goblin warband:

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t4646-another-night-goblin-warband?highlight=night+goblin+warband

Ben Wright's version, based heavily on Pathfinder's. Lots of variety, without being too squig heavy. I kinda like it best, but have not played it.

Terry's: Unless I'm crazy, I don't think this was developed for Azghal... a lot of the Azghal warbands were crazy powerful (the average leader started with A2), and I don't see that in Terry's warband, at least as it is posted on Mordheimer. I think it is the most "accepted" NG warband, although I can't say how it plays.

Models: Well, Forest Gobs USED to come in metal, on-foot figures. However, it's not impossible to put the plastic riders on 20mm bases. Observe:

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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 19 May 2011 - 22:25

Models--I have some from 4th edition Warhammer and I kitbashed a bunch more out of the common goblin boxset. I'll see if any of the old photos are still around the web anywhere.

The ones that come with the new spider kit are awesome, but you would have to buy from a bitz place.
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Fri 20 May 2011 - 4:05

@StyrofoamKing:

I do like the look of Ben Wright's version - it's more succinct, less rules.

However, a couple of things do irk me. Is it an oversight that the Chieftain can't select Night Goblin Special Skills? Or is it a balance thing? Seems a bit crap fluff-wise.

Also, with the Hunter Skill (the trap one), is that a skill that has to be earned, or does the Hunter begin with it?

And with the Snotlings it seems the distance they should be from each other is undecided! Any ideas on that?

And one last observation (!) - from what I remember over on Pathfinder D's Gobbo thread, Ded Shooty was considered somewhat broken, but it has been included?

From what I could read over on the Mordheimer website, Terry altered the whole band to be played in the classic Mordheim setting as the Azghal project wasn't going to get properly published (or something Razz )

Thanks for the Forest Gobbo ideas too, I thought the spider-mounted ones would be useless, but obviously not Smile


@ Von Kurst:

I did have a look on Ebay at some old Forest Goblin metals, but they are too expensive..

Photos of your work would be great Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Fri 20 May 2011 - 6:06

His website has a slightly more complete version.

https://sites.google.com/site/benjaminography/files-1/NightGoblins-benjaminographyv1.1.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1

Ded Shooty: I don't know about Pathfinder's version, but I think the key word is "+6 to SHORT bows". If it's to any weapon, it makes it prone to abuse (ex.weapons master and eagle eye would give you a 60" hochland rifle). with this version only helping a short bow, it basically turns a short bow into a bow.
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Fri 20 May 2011 - 7:26

Ah good stuff, cheers for the link. I reckon I'll use this list, the complete version clears up all my queries and is nicely presented. Also thanks to Ben Wright wherever you are!

I had a look at your Common Goblin list - the 'Nitchs' (sp) idea is great. The personalisation adds a nice touch. I'll definitely have to give them a go once my Night Gobbos have amassed a disgusting losing streak Razz

Before I get going on a list, would you advise putting a Troll in from the start, or not? I'm thinking not, just because of rout numbers.

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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Fri 20 May 2011 - 7:57

Well, the problem with most big guys is that they die too easy... but with trolls, you never have to worry about that, 'cause they're immortal!

I haven't played Orcs or Gobbos before, but personally, I think it makes sense to buy one from the start. You can always find 15-30 gc each game to add to the ranks... but I don't think I've ever had 200 gc saved up for a single thing, no matter how much I wanted it. It just means that you'll run pretty fast the first few games (but most warbands will be tiny anyway, so you have an even chance.)
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Fri 20 May 2011 - 10:53

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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Fri 20 May 2011 - 12:59

When I play forest goblins as forest goblins I always include the big spider at the start. Very few models can hurt him then and he can avoid them or try to eliminate them.

With Orcs and goblins I always start with the troll since it is unlikely to go away. (We play with the rules from the Black Orc warband, so a troll must roll for injury if a fire attack takes him OOA.) With low ld it is also unlikely to do much, but most of my opponents still try real hard to get rid of it. Even if it has no impact on the battle besides being targeted I look on it as a casualty well spent, since I know it will be back.

The only issue I would see with a goblin warband is that the Boss has to be near the Troll in order for it to work at all and that means the boss is in danger. The same goes for the spider but at least it provides fear and a +1 armor save.
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Fri 20 May 2011 - 14:14

@ StyrofoamKing, Von Kurst: Thanks for the advice! I've included one in my list. I didn't need much persuading Razz It's nice to have something on the roster that refuses to die.

@Murray145: I can't take any more lists! Sad (I lie.. I've favourited the thread for a look at it later Smile )
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Sat 21 May 2011 - 19:25

Lookinglass wrote:

What models did you use for the Forest Goblins? Or did you just do a counts-as system?

Forest goblins--
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t5322-forest-goblins#75824
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 26 May 2011 - 12:19

Time for an update!

After much umming and ahhing I'm definitely going with Benjaminography's list - on face value it looks balanced and fun, and I'm happy to test it.

Maltman's list from the Mordheimer seems dull in comparison (where are all the weapon choices and special rules, and the glossy presentation..? Razz) and not problem-proof by any means - in particular, I have a real problem with animosity being rolled for with one die (I mean, come on! I've rolled ridiculous one-streaks before.)

Colour scheme-wise I'm going to try Dan Tunbridge's style seen in WD 276 (the creamy/white robes), although it does look difficult to pull off...

Reckon my opponents in the campaign will be Kislevites and Maneaters, so I'm in for a tough one. But my band is starting with a Troll and a set of poisoned daggers for high toughness nasties!

I'm not sure about too much shooting though.. I don't think the shortbows are great and having all the gobbos equipped with one would just be pure cheese (!). Having said that, I can't wait to get Weapons Expert for a pistol-toting Chieftain!


p.s. @ Von Kurst: Great stuff with the Forest Gobbos Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 26 May 2011 - 13:50

Wow, Gobbos vs. Maneaters sounds like a tough one indeed... good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Thu 26 May 2011 - 20:57

Squigs and trolls might be your best bet... that S4 will help you in the long run.

I happen to agree, Terry's is a bit dry. Credit where credit's due, it was the first band, and nearly every NG band since has been based on his. You know the old saying, "standing on the shoulders of giants." I did like Ben's, and am reprinting his in the Wee War campaign as the "NG band of choice." Let me know how it plays.
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PostSubject: Re: The most balanced Goblin Warband, which is it?   Fri 27 May 2011 - 12:35

@ Eliazar: Thanks Smile Think I'll need it..

@StyrofoamKing: I've got a troll AND 3 squigs Very Happy No fanatics to start with though. I'll post my list in the list thread in a bit, it'd be great if you could have a quick peek.

In terms of Terry's list - I agree, it's a great base, but that's exactly what it feels like, a base. So credit for that, but I'm glad somebody has spiced it up a bit. Will keep the forum updated with how I get on!
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