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 Priests of the Empire

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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Tue 29 May 2012 - 22:13

Quote :
Tomb Raiders from Araby are your force of choice?
Does anyone play that horrible warband by choice? (Coppermind excepted.)

I am currently running an Arab warband from the Relics of the Crusades supplement. But we also have Araby Smugglers from Sartosa and Nomads from the Khemri website competeing in the campaign.

Quote :
I would like to think that my supplying an article to back all of the popular deities of the Empire and it's neighbouring nations is enough!
It is sad to see such a lack of ambition in one so young. Does not the One exhort us to accomplishment?
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 30 May 2012 - 11:14

Excellent "saint stuff" guys. I was thinking about something like this from looong time!
But where is Priest of Ursun - God of Kislevites? Sad Without him list of Priests is a little incomplete for me Wink

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 30 May 2012 - 12:38

Dwalthrim and Von Kurst are both worshipping heathen gods!

The Arabyan themed stuff in Relics isn't close enough to Warhammer as it ought to be. It contains some meaningless background. It is therefore not to my tastes for the most part. There are some cool ideas and presentation is excellent. Playing roulette with the lore isn't going to win any kudos.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 30 May 2012 - 12:53

Relics--One of those inventions may indeed be the One. Razz

Is there a gods and goddesses suplement for Warhammer Roleplay? I only have the original book and the Warhammer world was a bit vague back then. (Sigmar a mere cult!)
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 30 May 2012 - 13:08

The two books you need in your life are Tome of Salvation and Tome of Corruption.

These are out and out classics. I can't say enough about them.
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Fri 14 Dec 2012 - 16:34

Werekin this suplament is great!

I have one thing I see as an issue.
I play Amazons more then any other warband though I was looking and I know that there is not a ton of information on Amazons out there but by my perception of them I see Myrmidia as being a good fit to the Amazons.
Reasons.
1: Myrmidia is sybolic to the Eagle. If you read up on the Amazon warband the Totem Warriors specify the Eagle as one of there Totems linked to one of there gods.
Quote :
Amazons that follow animal totems like the Eagle, Pirahna, Jaguar, etc, and adorn themselves in the skins and feathers of their patron gods.

2: Amazons history is that they took up there Axes (though funny they have no axes in there equipment list) when it was needed and they would not put them down and were outcast. Meaning they are warriors and well Myrmidia is the goddess of warriors.


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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Fri 14 Dec 2012 - 17:36

The leader of the Amazon warband is a Serpent Priestess. It wouldn't be fitting with the Amazon tribe vibe to surplant her with a Myrmidian Priestess.

The Amazon priestess miniatures would presumably make neat Myrmidian clergy though!
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Fri 14 Dec 2012 - 18:30

Hail !

I really like this Priest-stuff but a few things are itching me.

Priestess of Shallya:
The Purify prayer is totally broken. I play a Marauder of Onogal warband and I'd just be furious seeing 90% of my warband automatically lose D6 wounds on the second or third round. The range is too great, there is no defense at all and D6 wound is TOO MUCH. Facing an opponent that uses this prayer would get me mad, bored and that would be enough for me to stop playing at all against him. Now just wonder if two or three warbands hire the priestess in a campaign ... no fun for me at all as all the battle against them would represent BIG BIG BIG losses everytimes...

Priest of Solkan
The Inquisitor Mark is a bit boring. 1 chances on 6 to ''mutate'' an opponent every turn is too much. Its another game breaker for warbands that could not keep mutants like Witch hunters and Sisters of Sigmar. The ''mutated'' target is automatically purged of evil by his fellows even if it survive te battle. So, you ''kill'' a character everytime you manage to get a 6.

Priest of Ranald
The rumour of bounty spell should be limited to 1 successful attempt by game (humble opinion). I also think the priest should have access to shooting skills. As he is limited to throwing knives that would make him a bit better for combat.


The document should be clearer about the way you ''hire'' them. From now on we play you can replace one of your hero for a priest. They are good enough so must people would willingly do the switch.

There is no price for the Morrian Scythe. Can be annoying if you get robbed.


For all the other things, I'd say its perfect. As always, you do a wonderful job Werekin.

Regards.
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Sat 15 Dec 2012 - 18:00

About the Priest of Ranald--
The affect of the spell Romour of... The text says it affects all warbands in the post battle sequence. In practice how do you envision that working?

On our game night I earned the spell before my last game of the evening. That game ended after all of the other games so many players had already completed their trading by the time I decided what item I wanted to affect. Do those players lose out?
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Mon 17 Dec 2012 - 10:44

werekin wrote:
The leader of the Amazon warband is a Serpent Priestess. It wouldn't be fitting with the Amazon tribe vibe to surplant her with a Myrmidian Priestess.

The Amazon priestess miniatures would presumably make neat Myrmidian clergy though!

Your right and wrong on this. The Amazons are lead by a Priestess (name) but she is not as per the rules a Priestess/priest but a wizard.
Quote :
Wizard: The Priestess is a Wizard and may use Amazon Rituals. She starts with one ritual chosen at random from the list.
Also Amazon spells are called Rituals not Prayers (as they are for witch hunters and Sisters). The Chaos Magister also uses Rituals and is a Wizard as well.

So per the rules there is nothing stopping the Amazons from taking a priest/priestess.


Even if this were not the case the leader of warbands do die from time to time and granted per the rules you could have your new leader learn the magic. You could also opt out and hire a Priestess if you so wanted (if you were un lucky enough to lose a few heroes) just as Witch Hunters and Sisters could.
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Tue 18 Dec 2012 - 3:58

@ Pervavita
Quote :
Your right and wrong on this. The Amazons are lead by a Priestess (name) but she is not as per the rules a Priestess/priest but a wizard.

Also Amazon spells are called Rituals not Prayers (as they are for witch hunters and Sisters). The Chaos Magister also uses Rituals and is a Wizard as well.

Sometimes a wizard is also a priest, or a priest is a wizard. Norse Shamans and Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers are spiritual leader in their respective societies as well as being magicians. You tend to think of them as sorcerers first and foremost because in game terms, most of their magic appears to be arcane, although it can sometimes be perceived as divine. They use both arcane an divine magic.

Based on what can be made of Warhammer lore, I would categorize the Amazon Priestess in the same way if anyone asked.

Quote :
So per the rules there is nothing stopping the Amazons from taking a priest/priestess.

Even if this were not the case the leader of warbands do die from time to time and granted per the rules you could have your new leader learn the magic. You could also opt out and hire a Priestess if you so wanted (if you were un lucky enough to lose a few heroes) just as Witch Hunters and Sisters could.

There's nothing to stop you doing what you want. The only thing that is fundamentally wrong with what you've suggested is in trying to drop a Hero to acquire a 2nd Hero who can wield magic! The idea behind 'Miracle Workers' is that warbands with no wizard or priest (using divine or arcane magic) can hire a priest instead of one of the other starting Heroes.

If you'd like to play a Myrmidian warrior-woman warband based on subverting the Amazons then go for it. Myrmidia is not their chosen goddess strictly speaking. It is common enough for there to be different aspects of the same gods though. For instance the elves worship a god who by any other name could be interpreted as being Manann. The example would suggest elf warbands could hire a Priest of Mathlann, the elven God of Storms.

My interpretation of the 'Miracle Workers' would be that you could think about hiring a War-Priestess of Myrmidia in the event that your Serpent Priestess died. This would also lend to an inspiring story concerning the questioning of faith for the warriors in your warband.
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Tue 18 Dec 2012 - 4:18

Quote :
Priestess of Shallya:
The Purify prayer is totally broken. I play a Marauder of Onogal warband and I'd just be furious seeing 90% of my warband automatically lose D6 wounds on the second or third round. The range is too great, there is no defense at all and D6 wound is TOO MUCH. Facing an opponent that uses this prayer would get me mad, bored and that would be enough for me to stop playing at all against him. Now just wonder if two or three warbands hire the priestess in a campaign ... no fun for me at all as all the battle against them would represent BIG BIG BIG losses everytimes...

I don't deal in idle speculation. Come back when your Priestess has returned from slaughtering Nurgle warbands across the Northern Wastes.

Quote :
Priest of Solkan
The Inquisitor Mark is a bit boring. 1 chances on 6 to ''mutate'' an opponent every turn is too much. Its another game breaker for warbands that could not keep mutants like Witch hunters and Sisters of Sigmar. The ''mutated'' target is automatically purged of evil by his fellows even if it survive te battle. So, you ''kill'' a character everytime you manage to get a 6.

The Mark is a story-based trick. It is a allows you to sew adventure seeds in a campaign for enemy warbands to be harbouring mutants. Don't think of the priest as having the power to "turn enemy models into mutants". The Mark represents rooting out evil that was "already there". Once the model is "exposed" as a mutant there is still a chance that they will remain with their warband (see the rule for testing on this in 'Corrupted Characters') but if it happens to a Witch Hunters warband then they are normally* screwed, sorry. The Mark is not a special power, it is more like a detective talent that offers a twist in your campaign story.

*I have found an out for the Witch Hunters on this, but it will question the faith of the warband leader. More details will be revealed in the 'Marketplace' chapter. Twisted Evil

Quote :
Priest of Ranald
The rumour of bounty spell should be limited to 1 successful attempt by game (humble opinion). I also think the priest should have access to shooting skills. As he is limited to throwing knives that would make him a bit better for combat.

Both of these points were already discussed after a previous post made by Von Kurst. Shooting skills to go with throwing knives, yes! One successful casting of any prayers which affect the following post battle sequence, yes!

@Von Kurst - Your game finished last in a round? If this meant that your opponents have all resolved their post battle sequence, then the effect of the prayer could be carried over to the next post battle sequence. I suppose this is what happens when a Trickster-Priest gets tied up in a street fight when he'd usually be causing mischief at local market stalls! Laughing

Quote :
The document should be clearer about the way you ''hire'' them. From now on we play you can replace one of your hero for a priest. They are good enough so must people would willingly do the switch.

This was one of the things that was discussed after the document was released. We haven't uploaded a v1.1 version of Miracle Workers as of this time I am afraid. You've got the right idea though.

Quote :
There is no price for the Morrian Scythe. Can be annoying if you get robbed.

Well quite. If the priest doesn't keep a firm grip on the ceremonial extension of his godhood then he'll have to think of another way to defend himself! Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Tue 18 Dec 2012 - 5:18

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I don't deal in idle speculation. Come back when your Priestess has returned from slaughtering Nurgle warbands across the Northern Wastes.

You're right... I speculate... But I have a long gamer history behind me and I know when something can totally waste the fun of someone. Just imagine a priestess near the center of the battleground.. with 24'' radius range the spell will cover 90% of the table... its really hopeless for the ''victim''. Its particulary the fact you have NO defense at all that annoy me... even your best warriors would be ''destroyed'' by a single spell ...

Still, I did not wanted to insult you. I really respect your work and we consider what you do as official. I'm french so sometimes the way I write in english can mislead you to think I am arrogant... But I'm really not.

Thx

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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Tue 18 Dec 2012 - 9:24

@ werekin

Quote :
Sometimes a wizard is also a priest, or a priest is a wizard. Norse Shamans and Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers are spiritual leader in their respective societies as well as being magicians. You tend to think of them as sorcerers first and foremost because in game terms, most of their magic appears to be arcane, although it can sometimes be perceived as divine. They use both arcane an divine magic.

Based on what can be made of Warhammer lore, I would categorize the Amazon Priestess in the same way if anyone asked.
I understand fully from the fluff side what you are saying here. But per the rules this is not the case.
Quote :

There's nothing to stop you doing what you want. The only thing that is fundamentally wrong with what you've suggested is in trying to drop a Hero to acquire a 2nd Hero who can wield magic! The idea behind 'Miracle Workers' is that warbands with no wizard or priest (using divine or arcane magic) can hire a priest instead of one of the other starting Heroes.
of course nothing stops me from doing what I want... I want flying monkies I can have them though it may not be balanced Wink
I was not aware that your intent was to allow those warbands with out magic to have it. This should be made more clear with in your rule set to read "A warband can have no more then one priest/priestess or wizard" or something allong those lines.
why? well look at how this will interact with the offical warbands... ok it won't be a problem any place I can see there. But if you look to Unoffical or even experamental warbands it will be a problem. Shadow Elves have a Shadow Weaver. Per these rules you can have 2 spell caseters. Amazons in the above case, even the Merchent Caravan as there Wizard is a hero that is not the leader.
point is there are other warbands out there that will be played that can have 2 magic users with these rules.


On another note: Myrmidian I saw as the incarnation or closest to warrior goddess of the Amazons. They have more then one god and she fits there fluff.
also per the rules writen the Amazons can get other priestess from the list. I was just wanting Amazons added to Myrmidian's list.
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Tue 18 Dec 2012 - 13:49

Quote :
Purify Difficulty 9
The Cleric displays her abhorrence of the Plague God with an anathema to his polluting servants. The Priestess shrivels vile followers of Onogal with the purifying power of Shallya.
Any warriors from a Carnival of Chaos warband or other servants of Onogal the Fly Lord within 24" of the Priestess lose D6 Wounds, regardless of Toughness or armour. All affected warriors must also pass a Leadership test or be stunned.
@werekin... I may be clutching at straws here but I need to clarify something. Are the enemy warriors who lose D6 wounds required to roll on the injury table if they are reduced to 0 Wounds? I have always assumed yes which is why this spell which can cover 20% of a standard 4'x4' table if cast from a corner up to 90% of a 4'x4' table if cast from the middle seems so overpowered. However, if this prayer only has the ability to reduce Wounds down to 0 without a roll on the injury table (e.g. shrivel them up but not destroy) then it would really just soften up the enemy warband rather than slaughtering the warband. This would also make sense with the last sentence that says that there is a stil the possibility of stunning some enemy warriors. That last sentence seems a little superficial if the enemy warband is rolling on the injury table anyway for all of their affected warriors. I would accept this spell and the range of 24" if it could not directly take enemy warriors OOA.

So can you confirm whether your intent was to take mass enemy warriors OOA or simply to soften them up?
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 19 Dec 2012 - 9:33

Quote :
I'm french so sometimes the way I write in english can mislead you to think I am arrogant... But I'm really not.

@Goglutin - It is all healthy discussion and debate as far as I am concerned my good sir. Sir, yes sir!

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- Old World saying


Quote :
I was not aware that your intent was to allow those warbands with out magic to have it. This should be made more clear with in your rule set to read "A warband can have no more then one priest/priestess or wizard" or something allong those lines.
why? well look at how this will interact with the offical warbands... ok it won't be a problem any place I can see there. But if you look to Unoffical or even experamental warbands it will be a problem. Shadow Elves have a Shadow Weaver. Per these rules you can have 2 spell caseters. Amazons in the above case, even the Merchent Caravan as there Wizard is a hero that is not the leader.
point is there are other warbands out there that will be played that can have 2 magic users with these rules.

@Perv - Not the smoothest move to cite Shadow Warriors as an example, but in any case I do catch your drift. I did not state that it was unheard of, rather it is unusual for a warband to include a spellcaster. That is my point. One that I doesn't need to be overstated. Magic is uncommon enough for players to realise. This is Warhammer not Hogwarts. Magic is still special, or at least it was before 'Storm of Magic'. LoL

There are ways to hire 2 or more magicians, be they witches or petty conjurers. The road you are going down does not seem like one that ought to be advocated. Amazons are isolationists. I will however include them in one of the new campaign objective paths which I've been working on - which will open up some options for warbands to 'develop' more personality in urban campaigns. Wink

If it's flying monkeys you want then buy a magic carpet! Also please check out the Fanticide skirmish game. They have them, with fez hats too!!

Quote :
I may be clutching at straws here but I need to clarify something. Are the enemy warriors who lose D6 wounds required to roll on the injury table if they are reduced to 0 Wounds?

@Rational - Your genius never ceases to amaze me my liege!

Remember that the majority of the prayers are translations from the marvellous 2nd edition WFRP material. The work I've done isn't flawless by any stretch. The last sentence would indeed seem superficial. If you think that the act of shriveling the bloated followers of Nurgle needs to be iterated differently in the prayer text then it's something we could look at.

Regards,

Werekin
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 19 Dec 2012 - 9:56

Shadow Warriors were cited not because they are balanced (we know they are not) but mainly because they are a warband that people do know... and well people have tried to balance them and the shadow weaver remains with the warband.

Yes there are ways to have 2+ spell casters with in the rules as are now but only one ever is a hero well all others (Warlock, witch, ext) are hired swords so advance slower and die easier. This rule set will allow 2 heroes with magic with in the same warband and as you said the intent is to give magic to those who do not have it then yes you are doing that but also opening up for more magic for other warbands. From what I understand is not your intent.

As to the Amazons with a priestess comming from this list. I see the list here as being open more as using Empire names. These rules do go so far as to include Dwarven and Elven(?) names for some of these gods as well. It would not be a far stretch to say that some of these gods/goddess would have an equal in other cultures around the world too.
My request for Amazons to be able to snag a Myrmidian priestess not because it is "Myrmidian" but rather one of there goddess from home (that is never named that I know of).

I was quite happy to see them and Lizardmen get some love in BtB with the Dambed shall Burn! objective. I can't wait to see what you come up with!


As to the prayer " Purify"
maybe D6 S2 hits, Treat 3-6 as Stunned
It would not kill any and still could hurt a lot. Not saying that's perfect but just an idea on a path you could look into.
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 19 Dec 2012 - 11:11

There are a lot of arguments about the Shallyan lady and her so called Purifier. So also in my small group. But is anyone actually playing her? To me she seems like a really nice priestess to include if playing a rpg themed game, but she really is a weak dame in a harsher climate. Hard to keep alive and slow to learn.

I'm not trying to criticize anyone of my fellow forumites I am just wondering aloud.
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 19 Dec 2012 - 12:02

Well quite. Too many theoretical gamers post superfluous commentary based on the battles they acted out in their heads. Sad

The prayer of purification has the same effect that it does in the RPG holy tome. I have yet to receive hatemail from a Chosen of Onogal.
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 19 Dec 2012 - 12:23

Werekin - are the Miracle workers going to get an update in MiM?
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 19 Dec 2012 - 13:12

For Ulric; the wolf friend skill feels off.
I like the idea but the problem I see with it is that the friend is a henchmen that takes a skill to hire but if it dies it can suffer from the same bad luck with dice as a normal henchmen (33% chance of death).
The wolf has no noticable bonus over a warhound ether.
So in short it's a henchmen that leaves the battle if the hero is taken OOA and cost a hero advancment to get.

Was this the intent?

Also does the wolf friend take up a slot in the warband (count into the max 15 members), count for warband rating, deviding up spoils (income), and rout test?

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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 19 Dec 2012 - 14:31

werekin wrote:
Quote :
I may be clutching at straws here but I need to clarify something. Are the enemy warriors who lose D6 wounds required to roll on the injury table if they are reduced to 0 Wounds?

@Rational - Your genius never ceases to amaze me my liege!

Remember that the majority of the prayers are translations from the marvellous 2nd edition WFRP material. The work I've done isn't flawless by any stretch. The last sentence would indeed seem superficial. If you think that the act of shriveling the bloated followers of Nurgle needs to be iterated differently in the prayer text then it's something we could look at.

Regards,

Werekin
Yes, shrivel away the bloated foulness of those devoted to Nurgle. Reveal them as the weak warriors that they really are and then crush them with your own warriors. I fully recommend rewording the spell so that it is more clear the intent.

Quote :
Purify Difficulty 9
The Cleric displays her abhorrence of the Plague God with an anathema to his polluting servants. The Priestess shrivels vile followers of Onogal with the purifying power of Shallya.
Any warriors from a Carnival of Chaos warband or other servants of Onogal the Fly Lord within 24" of the Priestess lose D6 Wounds, regardless of Toughness or armour. All affected warriors must also pass a Leadership test or be stunned.

Perhaps the following wording would be clearer...
Quote :
Any warriors from a Carnival of Chaos warband or other servants of Onogal the Fly Lord within 24" of the Priestess lose D6 Wounds, regardless of Toughness or armour. Do not roll on the injury table if an affected warrior is reduced to 0 Wounds. In addition, all affected warriors must also pass a Leadership test or be stunned.
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Goglutin
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 19 Dec 2012 - 15:10

Indeed... if you don't have to roll for injuries for the Purify prayer ... its still powerful but not too much.

If its the way the spell was intended to work then I see no problem with it...
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Wed 19 Dec 2012 - 15:21

@Werekin

It could be fun if you include something about switching the leader of your warband for a priest... that would lead to ''devoted'' warbands and I think this could be very interesting...

Ex: A Mercenary warband dedicated to Ulric and paid by the church to purge infidels like those Sigmarites scums !!

I'm still thinking about something to ''adapt'' this idea... Wink


Maybe including a extra cost and an upgraded stat line for Captain-Priest...
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Thu 20 Dec 2012 - 1:10

Goglutin wrote:
Indeed... if you don't have to roll for injuries for the Purify prayer ... its still powerful but not too much.

If its the way the spell was intended to work then I see no problem with it...
If this is indeed how the prayer is supposed to work then...
1) it's biggest impact is on enemy warriors that have more than 1 Wound as there is no difference in gameplay for a warrior with 1 Wound and with 0 Wounds although of course there is still the chance that any affected warrior can be stunned, and
2) it is a nice counter to the Bloated Foulness mutation Blessing of Onogal which can be found in the Corrupted Characters article for Mutiny in Marienburg (refer below for quoted rules). This makes me happy as that was a popular mutation for a Beastmen Raiders warband that followed Onogal/Nurgle in our old Border Town Burning campaign which had 3 heroes with that mutation (ouch! Sad ).

Quote :
bloated foulness
The mutant is a huge, disgusting mass of diseased, flabby folds. It gains +1 Wound and +1 Toughness but has its Movement reduced by -1.
Cost: 40 gold crowns
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PostSubject: Re: Priests of the Empire   Today at 7:38

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