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 Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords

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gewaltatron
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PostSubject: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Tue 5 Apr 2011 - 20:23

Hi there,

we're planing our new campaign for this summer and I was thinking about a rule that led to discussions during ours last campaign:

There is a rule that states that the Carnival of Chaos gang may never hire a hired sword -
Dangerous to Know: (...) a Carnival of Chaos may never
hire any type of Hired Sword.

Now, since I am the player of this particular warband I don't want to be considered as biased but I really think this rule is quiet unbalanced for a long time campaign. Sure there are some heavy guys available for the Carnival band but no hired swords at all?
I dont want to start a discussion on why this rule makes sense or not, but just by comparison with other bands and in view of the fun for the campaign, I think it sucks. Fluffwise it would make sense to use something like an Ogre and convert him into some kind of giant freak, no doubt!

So my question is, from your experience, do you use this rule or treat the CoC band like undead or possessed when it comes to hired swords?

Best,
Gewaltatron
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StyrofoamKing
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Tue 5 Apr 2011 - 20:36

You can understand why most WOULDN'T... anyone who spends more than a few weeks with them becomes infected. No one would dare!

As for Hired Swords, I'd argue that "all hired swords written before/during the release of Carnival may not be used". That being said, there's at least one or two hired swords written since then that SPECIFICALLY STATE that the CoC can hire them.

For example, Ethlorien released a SG approved HS list, which included the Emissary of Chaos. It says it may be hired by Carnival. Likewise, the Beggar (same supplement), says it will be hired to ANY (though evil warbands pay extra upkeep). http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/fanatic/94nhs.pdf

I can't think of any others off the top of my head. There's also the Markus the Mad, the Dark Jester, a CoC Dramatis Personae.
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gewaltatron
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Tue 5 Apr 2011 - 20:51

thx mate, I think there are some arguments why one could think of some hired swords to join. E.g. imagine an old infested warlock, able to do some magic tricks that was banished from his hometown and know joins the carnival just to pull through... I would not say there is no way to consider it....


But I didn't even know about the guys you mentioned. where do I find the rules for Markus the Mad, the Dark Jester, a CoC Dramatis Personae?

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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Tue 5 Apr 2011 - 20:59

gewaltatron wrote:
So my question is, from your experience, do you use this rule or treat the CoC band like undead or possessed when it comes to hired swords?

No. I would not make the hiring condition the same as undead or possessed. The CoC is a strong warband. One of its balancing 'weaknesses' is a lack of hired swords. Therefore even if you could justify it in the 'fluff' I would recommend against it. Of course, you can always discuss any potential house rules with your gaming group and if everyone agrees then go ahead. Smile

I agree with what SK said about finding hired swords that were written after the CoC warband was released to see if any specifically state that they can be hired by a CoC warband.

Also, I recommend the "Swords of the Empire" article written by the Libre Malefic team (forum thread here: http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t4536-liber-malefic-old-swords-on-new-contracts). This article is a compilation of most hired swords that exist and sanitises the hiring conditions for some of the hired swords. In this article CoC warbands are classified as "followers of Chaos" and the following three hired swords can be hired by "followers of Chaos" and therefore can be hired by CoC warbands:
* Ogre Slaver
* Slaver
* Dark Elf Assassin Apprentice

I can't help you find the Dark Jester. I've heard about him but I don't know where from.

Cheers,

RL
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Tue 5 Apr 2011 - 21:41

Markus the Mad--

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fanatic_Online_010-019

This tells you where to look further or somebody might have the download saved,
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Tue 5 Apr 2011 - 21:53

thx I will take a look!
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Shadowphx
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Tue 5 Apr 2011 - 23:24

I LOVE the COC!!! Fun Band!

The Dark Jester lists it will work with the COC.
I donít have it in front of me, but I believe the Werewolf also lists it could be hired by the COC. Could someone check it for me, Iím not near my books?
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Wed 6 Apr 2011 - 0:28

The Cursed Hillman is only Possessed, Beastmen and Undead. Interesting. Considering it mentions Beastmen which are in Empire in Flames together with CoC I reckon that CoC were specifically excluded.
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Sun 10 Apr 2011 - 13:57

From a game balance point of view I'd argue "no" as the Carnival are a pretty powerful warband. Not necessarily broken (although I do feel like certain aspects could potentially be toned down), but quite strong. And as has been pointed out, they can hire some Hired Swords, it's just a very limited pool.

Now, expanding that pool a bit probably wouldn't break the warband, either. They're good but adding a hired sword or two isn't going to make them game-breakingly so. Just try to keep it relatively small (in keeping with the fluff behind them), and as a bit of a litmus test I'd say don't give them access to anyone that Possessed can't also hire, and maybe not even all of those. For example, the Ogre Bodyguard and Pit Fighter seem unnecessary since their role is already more than sufficiently covered by the Brutes and thematically, being ordinary (albeit probably unscrupulous) individuals with no remarkable or supernatural powers, they'd probably want to avoid the Carnival. Warlocks and Witches make a little more sense, since perhaps they could have some kind of magic ward against the Carnival's diseases.

Just my 0.02.

On Markus the Mad - he's also one of the more powerful DP's out there, although he's a big gamble too. I know I have the pdf printed out, and if you can't find it anywhere let me know. I'd be happy to track it down and scan it for you - I should probably scan all my Mordheim pdf prints since most of them aren't available online anymore (or at least are hard to find). Essentially he's a child wearing a daemonically possessed Jester's hood - as the child he's an agile combatant but not especially powerful. However, during the game the hood can potentially take over, transforming him into a much more powerful daemonic being that is an absolute brute! He's immune to all damage (!), but you have to track wounds he suffers because, if he reverts to his child form in-battle, he suffers them all at once.
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Sun 10 Apr 2011 - 18:18

I found the files for Markus the Mad over the weekend on the Mordheim Yahoo email group. A lot (all?) of the files from the old SG site were uploaded to the Mordheim Yahoo email group file store when the old SG site went down. It is worth signing up if you haven't already and checking it out.

Here is the link:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/mordheim
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gewaltatron
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Sun 10 Apr 2011 - 19:35

Hi Guys,

thanks for the reply. Meanwhile I also found the files at the yahoo group. Of course if one of you has something that is very rare or even unavailable for the rest, I think everyone would be happy to get a copy of it.

I think now I agree with what has been said here, we will do no changes and just start the campaign with the usual hired swords and DP (well , we are not sure whether to include DP at all....) and see how it works out.

best,
G.
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of Chaos ans Hired Swords   Sun 10 Apr 2011 - 20:09

Good call, RationalLemming!

I had forgotten about the Yahoo group (even though I'm a member - :facepalm:)! That's probably the best resource for old Mordheim info on the net (or at least up there with tabletopgeeks).
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