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Tintin
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PostSubject: Skaven?   Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 19:15

So... its been quite a while since we had our last Mordheim campaign going.
The last time we played, Skaven was sort of a team in their own legue, almost unbeatable in the beginning.
Its been a long time since I played mind you, and with that in mind, forgive me if I am bringing something up that might be regarded as flaming or whining. But... its not, its an honest question involved here. I am just wondering a bit if it still is the case?. I realize that there have been loads of new warbands under review, and not to mentioned, released, and I suppose that something was done to counter the slight imbalance that the Skaven caused.
I wonder, would perhaps the undead be good at dealing with the Skaven, or are there any other warbands that have enough "punch" to give them a good run for the money? Or have the rules them self been updated in some way, and I should run and download something?
We have acess to the core rules (the original book), most of the Town Cryer, Best of Town Cryer, but thats about it.
I have been downloading a lot of Mordheim stuff lately, but that have been campaign settings and some warbands, not much rules I suppose.
Any suggestions, advice or direct orders like "Run and get these rules ASAP and thats AN order private!"
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RationalLemming
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven?   Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 22:40

Skaven are still at top-tier warband and are still probably one of the strongest official warbands. Some people will definitely claim that they are unbalanced.

Do you use the printed rulebook or the living rulebook available on the GW web site? The rule book PDF on the GW web site contains the rules from the last errata that was released (e.g. are you aware that slings and spears have been changed from the original printed core rule book?).

Fear is one of the biggest hurdles that Skaven need to overcome. Therefore undead should be a good warband against them although speed would be a pain. Also, All Alone tests (which many people don't seem to use unfortunately) can also be a bad thing for low leadership warriors like Skaven. Skaven do generally have a high number of warriors so All Alone tests may not be that frequent but when it comes up then Skaven players should hold their best and wish for the best because it is likely that the Skaven warrior will flee and difficult to rally fleeing Skaven warriors.
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Tintin
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven?   Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 3:31

Ohoy!

Thanks for the nice answer. We are currently using the printed rulebook, but as I said, we are looking at all the internet resources and will start updating as soon as possible, but wanted some advice first.
All Alone is great, and have been the weapon of choice along with fear, as much was expected, but yeah, we figured that the Skaven was still a bit tough compared to the other warbands. I will check the sling rules out, anything to anger the Skaven player hehe!
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven?   Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 3:42

Another good foil our group found was Orcs. They're tougher than humans, cheaper than dwarves, and can have up to 20 members, just like the skaven. Sure, they only start with 4 heroes, but in late game, they have the potential to do some damage.
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Louis
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven?   Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 4:29

I've been playing Skavens for 5 games in our new campain, and I haven't won a single match. I used to play Witch Hunters, so it is a brand new style for me, but still. I don't think i have been playing them badly. It's just that they are so fast to rout. And money comes in so slowly, due to my large number of warriors.
Anything with longer range than slings, are a good warband against skaven IMO.

You should get the PDF rules from GW. It's in three sections (rules, warbands & campain).
We use that, and the town cryers.


Last edited by Louis on Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 6:31; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven?   Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 4:34

some Ideas to deal with Skaven:
- allow just 5 buyable heroes (leader, 2 Black Skaven, Sorcerer and 1 Night Runner) (its slows them down a little)
- decrease warband size to 15 models and giant rats don't count towards the maximum size (our nightmare were 21 skaven with slings an BS-advances)
- use Sling errata

Fear is not so difficult for Skaven with many slings...
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven?   Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 5:50

I have never found skaven to be overpowered. They do have their strengths (six starting heroes, cheap models = large numbers), but counter-balancing weaknesses (crappy leadership and no long-range shooting). In any campaign, one or two warbands are probably going to stomp everyone else - sometimes because of who is playing them, sometimes because of luck, sometimes a bit of both.

If you are worried about them, the above advice is good. I would only add that if you are running a human mercs band, start your warband with at least one blunderbuss. If I had a dollar for every skaven I have skragged with a blunderbuss blast, I could probably buy a couple of boxes of Empire greatswords...
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven?   Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 8:00

The trick to beating them is beating them in range, crossbows range is so much better than a sling, then in hand to hand don't let them swarm you. 3 on 1 they will win, but 3 on 3 you should win. Also not all Skaven Heroes can get strength skills, so you can usually out muscle them.

I have noticed a trend in Warbands. If a Warband list has Superior Models like Elves, then you have a max of 12. If they have average models like Human Mercs then you have a max of 15. If they are flawed like Orcs with Animosity then you have a limit of 20. Skaven flaw is low leadership.

I think if you have a diverse selection of warbands Skaven are average. However if you have too many warbands that are too similar and their disadvantage is similar and one that Skaven have a significant advantage over then they can seem over powered. The perfect example is speed. If a Skaven warband plays Undead, Dwarves, and other slower warbands then they can out run them. If you throw a couple other fast warbands in their like Lizardmen, Beastmen, and Elves then you don't have the Skaven being able to exploit their speed.

Also you have to look at the Scenario. There are some scenarios that Skaven's Speed is just better. Having a 6 movement is going to be a significant advantage in any scenario in which grabbing items is concerned.
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