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 Sigmar's Name in Latin

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Dahag
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PostSubject: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Thu 10 Mar 2011 - 6:00

Hi all,

I'm going to create a Protectorate of Sigmar warband and thus I would like to give the warband a latin name.

For this reason I wonder what "Sigmar" would be in Latin.

Sigmarus? Sigmarius? Sigmaris? Sigmar??

and which sort of declination would that be then?

thanks in advance for answering a strange question Very Happy

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Eliazar
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Thu 10 Mar 2011 - 9:32

It's Sigmarius. What declination is pretty difficult to say without knowing what you want to say first Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Thu 10 Mar 2011 - 11:07

i did not mean which case (genitive, accusative or whatever) but -as latin has different declinations- i wondered which one it would be (i-declination, o-declination or whatever...)

anyway, i intend to say "just wrath of sigmar", which would then be "Ira Recta Sigmarii".

thanks, my latin is some years ago already Smile And (non-latin-derived) names are always a special case anyway... Smile

btw. is there a special reason why you come to the conclusion that it must be sigmarius or is this just your suggestion / opinion how it should be?
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Thu 10 Mar 2011 - 12:53

I think we all know Sigmar is just the greek letter Sigma plus an "r" but I'll mention it anyway. That said, I believe Sigmar is also Sigmar in latin. I do not have an example of a roman first name or gentile name that doesn't end on "us" or "a", but the formula "name + us = latin name" certainly is to easy. There are some cognomen, like Nero, Cicero or Caesar. And, since Caesar is the closest you can get to Sigmar (the -ar), I'd go with this declination:
http://www.sprachenstudio.net/l/latein/dekl/dekl02.php?s=Caesar&b=vvd11&epi=99
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Thu 10 Mar 2011 - 15:21

Grimscull wrote:
I think we all know Sigmar is just the greek letter Sigma plus an "r" but I'll mention it anyway. That said, I believe Sigmar is also Sigmar in latin.

as for me I did not know. Smile well, of course I know the letter sigma. but the connection between sigma and sigmar is completely new to me. Is there any official (=GW/Tuomas) one?

But then: how to transfer greek semantics into latin? unfortunately these two languages - although certainly having some loanwords as they had intensive contact - are substantially different. at least in my opinion.

my problem is that -ar is quite an unusual ending in latin so I doubt if it could be taken as such without adding a suffix.

but thank you for pointing out the morphological similarity to caesar. although its not a personal name but a synonym for (Roman) emperor it still gets quite close to it.

And Ira Recta Sigmaris sounds pretty good, doesn't it? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Thu 10 Mar 2011 - 15:40

btw. I just discovered that there is a prayer known in the Empire as "Deus Sigmar".

Although "deus" seems here to be Reikspiel and not latin itself it still would make a lot of sense to state that it simply means "God Sigmar". Which on the other hand would mean that the makers of Warhammer chose the (fictional) "Latin" (i.e. Reikspiel) nominative form of the English/German/whatever "Sigmar" to be "Sigmar" also. (As "Deus Sigmar" is nominative).

So according to this, one could use any latin -ar word like caesar -as Grimscull proposed- and use it's declination and be fairly right (?)

here's the link btw. although in German:

http://whfb.lexicanum.de/wiki/Verse_des_Deus_Sigmar
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Thu 10 Mar 2011 - 15:56

Oh and now I just detected the "scripta Sigmari" (German mordheim rulebook, p. 36.) In the English Rulebook the same (fictional) text is called ""Scriptures of Sigmar", so the mere English translation.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2180245_Mortheim_-_Regelauszug.pdf


"scripta" would then be nominative plural (from "scriptus") and "Sigmari" would then be genitive singular.

But if genitive of Sigmar is "Sigmari" then this would mean that the nominative form were "Sigmarus" and not "Sigmar".... (?)

i'm confused... D'OH!

so maybe Reikspiel does not seem to work exactly like Latin (or my Latin knowledge is miserable as hell LOL)

PS. sorry for the triple post!
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Fri 11 Mar 2011 - 0:51

Dahag wrote:

but thank you for pointing out the morphological similarity to caesar. although its not a personal name but a synonym for (Roman) emperor it still gets quite close to it.

I ain't too proud to quote Wiki over that one, simply because it sums it up quite nicely:
Quote :
Caesar (plural Caesars; Latin: Caesar, plural: Caesares) is a title of imperial character. It derives from the cognomen of Julius Caesar, the Roman dictator. The change from being a familial name to a title adopted by the Roman Emperors can be dated to about AD 68/69, the so-called "Year of the Four Emperors".
The emperors before that, from Augustus on, used Gaius Julius' Cognomen as their own. So none of us two said anything wrong Very Happy

Quote :
But if genitive of Sigmar is "Sigmari" then this would mean that the nominative form were "Sigmarus" and not "Sigmar".... (?)
i'm confused... D'OH!
The explenation I can give here is: the writer just didn't know or didn't care as much as you do. To him, possibly Sigmar sounds fine, Sigmaris sounds fine and Sigmarius also (and it is close to Marius).

Quote :
so maybe Reikspiel does not seem to work exactly like Latin (or my Latin knowledge is miserable as hell LOL)
You nailed it! thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Fri 11 Mar 2011 - 4:24

You have to remember that Latin and German are used by GW to sound cool, and not always in the correct way. They just use translation dictionaries and pick words that "feel right"! They have said in White Dwarf a few times that they don't always get it right!

Latin in 40K is used as a "place holder" language for the ancient technological texts (often referred to as "High Gothic") and dead languages of the (in-game) past. In Warhammer it is used as a place holder language for "Old Reikspiel" (I think!). They will happily mix words from German, English and Latin!
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Sat 12 Mar 2011 - 4:59

Dahag wrote:
btw. is there a special reason why you come to the conclusion that it must be sigmarius or is this just your suggestion / opinion how it should be?

Well, I just looked up some German people called Sigmar on Wikipedia and switched to the article in Latin, to be honest Smile However, it sounds reasonable to me and I did quite a bit of Latin back in the days as well.

Oh, and Reikspell always appeared pretty German to me. The majority of the cities of the Empire are German. But closer inspection of the use of Latin and German phrases in the Warhammer world kind of hints at the fact that the people who make up the names don't really have too much of an in-depth knowledge of either Latin or German, just an online dictionary or something Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Sigmar's Name in Latin   Mon 14 Mar 2011 - 4:44

thanks all for your responses. Yes, I'm aware of course that this is a game and that the town crier or white dwarf are no linguistic journals Smile

I just have the eagerness to try to get it "right" while I'm at it.

I do agree with eliazar that -at least when it comes to German- certainly non-native speakers were at work.

As far as Latin is concerned I can't really judge it adequately.

It's also strange that some villages and cities of the Empire were named after existing modern German towns Smile

anyway. As Warboss Kurgan says: It's just a game and names suppose to sound well. So...

Thanks for your suggestions. I guess i'll stick with Sigmar (Gen. Sigmaris) but the other propositions certainly sound great as well!
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