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 Dog can climb!

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Bratzor
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PostSubject: Dog can climb!   Thu 24 Feb 2011 - 16:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXElh_VM0Uc&feature=player_embedded#

I just saw this film on youtube. You can clearly see that dogs can climb and therefore warhounds should be able to do so in Mordheim. And they should be able to pass really high obstacles.

House rule?
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Mephysto
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Thu 24 Feb 2011 - 20:43

Assassin's Creed 3. Now with pets ...

In Mordheim? Wardogs, aye. Battle monkeys, definitely. Cats, of course (never try to escape a lion or tiger by climbing a tree, mark my words ...). Spiders, yay. Dragons and other reptiles, maybe. Lumbering wolves which have been dead for years and only recently reanimated by The Ruinous PowersTM? Do not think so.

While it is a good idea, and definitely one of the points where a bit more realism would not hurt the game in my opinion, sadly, it would also get a bit complicated with all the different kinds of animals (that may or may not use the wardog profile) and player opinions on the matter or all the possible unrealistic situations that could (and would) arise from this, ironically, step of realism. Also, poochie sure has his problems with proper ladders (huzzah for opposable thumbs!), so even further differentiating there.

Also, realism would dictate or at least suggest many other things that have to stay omitted or simplified for the sake of gaming ease / balance / whatever, so realism cannot be the only criterion.

So generally, no, but for a friendly, civil and not-too-fixated-on-winning-the-game-SERIOUS-BUSINESS round that also has no problem with applying logic and common sense for different situations during a game, yes, why not?

Spoiler:
 


... Oh, and in case you are being ironic and I just stayed up for nothing: Jerk! Laughing
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Thu 24 Feb 2011 - 20:53

I used to have a mutt that could climb nearly anything as long as it wasn't vertical. Not much use as wardog, but he was a terror to the cats. I think it would work fine a a house rule for the right group.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Thu 24 Feb 2011 - 21:22

Well, also remember... warhounds aren't swift hunting dogs... they're MASTIFFS. Dogs bred to eat witches and small cows. Deadly? Yes. Agile? No.

Also, you can never trust anything on the internet. The low camera angles make some less than impressive jumps look "astounding" (although some definitely were impressive). Also, thanks to video editing, we don't know how many attempts were made per jump. Maybe he made 2 out of 3, maybe 2 out of a 100. For all we know, this is a year's worth of footage.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Thu 24 Feb 2011 - 23:24

You mean the internet isn't always true?
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Fri 25 Feb 2011 - 1:05

I see different dogs all the time, I see them do many different things all the time. Climbing is not one of them. I'm not saying it isn't possible (because I know that in some cases it is), but why further bog down an already bogged down game with possibly/maybe scenarios? Climbing is not a common canine forte no matter how many youtube videos you chuck at it...

So let's say you want to do it. What surfaces are considered what and how well can a dog climb them? A ruined second story floor hanging over a pile of rubble? Wooden beams? Ropes or ladders? Second story windows? (I know my orcs or witch hunters can try to climb up into them, but I challenge anyone to get a dog to do so by its own power). So many factors I'd rather just cut my losses while I'm ahead and save the headache.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Fri 25 Feb 2011 - 3:32

Quote :
In Mordheim? Wardogs, aye. Battle monkeys, definitely. Cats, of course (never try to escape a lion or tiger by climbing a tree, mark my words ...). Spiders, yay. Dragons and other reptiles, maybe. Lumbering wolves which have been dead for years and only recently reanimated by The Ruinous PowersTM? Do not think so.

Funny you should put it like that, since dire wolves don't actually have any rule specifying they're an animal, and thus have nothing in their statline preventing them from climbing Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Fri 25 Feb 2011 - 5:21

I think "climbing" on Mordheim usually reflects climbing up steep ladders or walls or other features in a 90░ angle to the ground. And while the dog might jump or run up a tree, I don't really see him climbing anything that's 90░.

And jumping and running up stairs or roads at an angle is already allowed for the animals. Perhaps you can give him a rule that he can pass an Initiative test and jump up a story or so, but climbing up 3 stories to the rooftop seems pretty unrealistic even for the dog in the video.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Fri 25 Feb 2011 - 5:55

@ Mephysto
You should try to climb up a tree to escape a bear either.

I thinks its pretty funny that the dog has problems with the ladder since it's considered esier to climb.

Destructable terrain sound interesting. The houses in Mordheim is clearly not indestructable or rather they should be easier to destroy since they're allready damaged. Someone should make "blow stuff up" rule!

@ StyrofoamKing
That could be the case that there were several attampts. Still a cool dog Smile

@ sartori
Yes, there are many factors and I'm starting to get a headache only thinking of it but there are several wall a human couldn't climb in real life that can be climbed in Mordheim

@ Eliazar
Yes, it seems more probable that a dog can jump up 1 story if there isn't proper dog friendly footing such as mailboxes and large beams sticking out of the wall.

There are many viable reasons why dogs shouldn't be able climb. But I realised that the climbing ablity is some thing the dog has learned. In Mordheim animals can't learn (for some reason) so I figured that they could be trained. What if there was a skill an animaltrainer could get? A character with the animal trainer skill could choose further training skills so that he can learn the animals to climb. Maybe it should be restrict what animals that can be taught. I have a hard time imagining horses climb.

Anyway, it's not super important but it could kind of fun. And you have to sacrifice 2 skills on an hero to make the climb (if you don't change the rules so that animals can gain experience).
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Fri 25 Feb 2011 - 7:31

If you want to go with skills, you can perhaps have an "Animal Trainer" Skill list, to which you gain acces by "Animal trainer" skill (an additional strength skill or whatever) You pick a skill on that list and the trainer is supposed to have taught it to the animal in his equipment - this way, it would only count for the bought generic war-animal from the rulebook, but not for giant rats or whatever. Also, you can exclude mounts in your ruling... special stuff for them can be learned via riding skills anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Fri 25 Feb 2011 - 11:57

Climbing the walls. What a ludicrous thread. Love it! Even though it old rope. Wink

There are a lot of dog-headed beastmen/mutants in 'Sword of Vengeance' by Chris Wraight. I bet they would climb more than your leg, after they finish scratching their arses! Prepare to be dry-humped on the charge by these canine soldiers after a successful Initiative test.
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PostSubject: Re: Dog can climb!   Fri 25 Feb 2011 - 12:17

That would be a terrible Skill.. When the beastman charges a living model the model immediately gets one attack against them. If that fails to wound then the beastmen automatically is knocked down and the charged model is stunned.
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