HomeFAQSearchRegisterUsergroupsBlogLog inGolden Tom 2014 Thread!

Share | 
 

 Breaking From Combat

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
DRD1812
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 229
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-28
Location : Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA

PostSubject: Breaking From Combat   Thu 3 Feb 2011 - 8:24

All of my opponents are knocked down. Can I break from combat without making a roll? What if they're stunned? Can I charge out of combat in either of those situations?

I'd have thought "no" to all, but a new player in the group saw things differently.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Louis
Champion
Champion


Posts : 59
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-15
Age : 32
Location : DK

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Witch Hunters
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Thu 3 Feb 2011 - 9:12

You can.

Rulebook p. 21 (see underlined):
moving from combat
Once models are engaged in hand-to-hand combat they cannot move away during their movement phase. They must fight until they are either taken out of action, until they take out their enemies, or until one or the other breaks and runs.
The exception to this rule is that if all a modelís close combat opponents are knocked down or stunned, he may move away from the combat if you wish, and even charge other enemies within range.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WarbossKurgan
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 2868
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2007-10-04
Age : 45
Location : Morkchester, UK

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Thu 3 Feb 2011 - 9:30

Louis is quite right.

You shouldn't though! You should always kick a man when he's down! lol!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.flameon.co.uk
DRD1812
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 229
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-28
Location : Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Thu 3 Feb 2011 - 11:40

I stand corrected then. It came up in my Left 4 Dead scenario, when getting to the end of the board was more important than zombie stomping. Thanks for the rules, guys!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Louis
Champion
Champion


Posts : 59
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-15
Age : 32
Location : DK

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Witch Hunters
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Thu 3 Feb 2011 - 14:28

No problem.
Though I'm with the Warboss on kicking on the lying down guys, I guess that there could be scenario objective situations where going for the win beats going for the kills... Smile
Rarely though. Cool
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mweaver
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1411
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-13
Location : South Texas, U.S.A.

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Thu 3 Feb 2011 - 16:29

Yeah, winning the scenario is one bonus experience point for the captain only; every dear(er) zed is a experience point for any hero who puts him OOA. Plus, if you don't kill all the zombies, how are we ever going to make Mordheim safe for democracy?

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Saranor
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 236
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-12-28
Location : Germany

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Shadow Warriors (Unofficial) Shadow Warriors (Unofficial)
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Thu 3 Feb 2011 - 23:41

but sometimes surviving (not going out of action) beats kills. if you know you get a pretty nasty charge(from a Posessed with good advances) the next turn, than it is sometimes wiser to break from Combat and run.

I did it sometimes to get models out of risk to regroup for a good counter charge.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
vince
Hero
Hero


Posts : 25
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-01-24

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Fri 4 Feb 2011 - 5:47

Or use a henchman to move 'away' from combat which you'd rather have your heroes in. It's a bit counter-intuitive, but a strong strategy in Mordheim.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Shadowphx
General
General


Posts : 184
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-11-05
Location : Phoenix, Az. U.S.A.

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Skaven Skaven
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Mon 7 Feb 2011 - 13:23

I'm sure most of us have done that. Move a Henchman for a stunned enemy and than charge a Hero in the get the kill. Itís a bit ďCheesyĒ sounding, but itís legal. And Iíll do it again! LOL
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Squigherder
Youngblood
Youngblood


Posts : 5
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-02-11

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 3:26

In a game recently we encountered an unusual problem: It is a cold and icy day in Mordheim(weather table: Icy underfoot). The vampire is in base contact with a knocked down forest goblin but he wants to charge another model: The forest goblin leader. We agree that he's allowed to, so far no problem. Since he's about to charge, he rolls the "Icy underfoot"-roll and manages to dodge the fatal '1'. Still no problem.
But the goblin leader carries around garlic, and the vampire fails the Ld-test and cannot charge.

So:
a) Is the vampire still in base contact with the knocked down goblin, so that he can kick it in the HtH-phase?(I believe this situation is completely comparable to a normal model failing to charge a fear-causing creature)
b) Should the ice-roll or the garlic-roll go first?
c) What if the vampire had rolled '1' on the ice-roll, would he fall to the ground still in base contact with the goblin, allowing him to kick the fanged one, or would the vampire be moved just out of base contact?

In the actual situation we ruled that in trying to charge, the vampire was moved out of base contact since it seemed most fair.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Louis
Champion
Champion


Posts : 59
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-15
Age : 32
Location : DK

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Witch Hunters
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 4:23

a)
I would say:
If he has not actually moved out of the combat, either due to what-ever-weather-reason or failed LD-test (or antoher reason robbing him of his movement (like failed climb test)), then he is still in combat and in base-to-base with the goblin.

b)
I don't know that weather rule (we don't play with weather). But if:
1) you need to roll every turn; then it comes before the LD-test
2) you need to roll when you want to move; it's after the LD-test, because the LD-test states if he actually 'wants' to move.

c)
Again I don't know the specifics of the rule, but if he falls on the spot, then I would say still in base-to-base.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
vince
Hero
Hero


Posts : 25
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-01-24

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 8:05

Another question: Can I fire a missile weapon at an enemy who just stunned one of my models in close combat? so in effect, he is in close combat. Practically there is no reason why I cannot shoot at an enemy if my only ally is laying face-first on the ground.

What do you think?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Louis
Champion
Champion


Posts : 59
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-15
Age : 32
Location : DK

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Witch Hunters
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 8:19

Well he's not laying face-first, as he recovered to 'knocked down' in your recovery phase. Razz
But I see your point.

Strictly speaking, they are still in close combat, and therefor you can not shoot at them.

But you might wan't to house rule something with your group, for future situations like this, if you think it's unfair/wrong.

However if your laying down guy is granting cover to your enemy, remember that he (you guy) is hit if target is missed by 1 on the dice roll, and you suffered a -1 to-hit from the cover (that is if you don't have Trick Shooter).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 7021
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 8:36

Squigherder wrote:
In a game recently we encountered an unusual problem: It is a cold and icy day in Mordheim(weather table: Icy underfoot). The vampire is in base contact with a knocked down forest goblin but he wants to charge another model: The forest goblin leader. We agree that he's allowed to, so far no problem. Since he's about to charge, he rolls the "Icy underfoot"-roll and manages to dodge the fatal '1'. Still no problem.
But the goblin leader carries around garlic, and the vampire fails the Ld-test and cannot charge.

So:
a) Is the vampire still in base contact with the knocked down goblin, so that he can kick it in the HtH-phase?(I believe this situation is completely comparable to a normal model failing to charge a fear-causing creature)
b) Should the ice-roll or the garlic-roll go first?
c) What if the vampire had rolled '1' on the ice-roll, would he fall to the ground still in base contact with the goblin, allowing him to kick the fanged one, or would the vampire be moved just out of base contact?

In the actual situation we ruled that in trying to charge, the vampire was moved out of base contact since it seemed most fair.

We play that the Vampire is still in base to base if for some reason he fails to leave, but it is really up to your group in this case as the rules do not cover it specifically.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Shadowphx
General
General


Posts : 184
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-11-05
Location : Phoenix, Az. U.S.A.

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Skaven Skaven
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 14:23

My group would answer it this way for your situation:

Since the Vampire attempted to move and for whatever reason failed to do so. But the movement was still tried, that was his action. I believe thereís a FAQ section somewhere stating it takes all the attacks to OOA a stunned model. Just as a model couldnít OOA 2 stunned models at his feet, in the same round. Since the Vamp attempted to move away and failed, he wouldnít be allowed to attack the downed model, because he Failed Charging another model. For the same reason someone gave for failing to climb a wall; that doesnít mean since the model failed, that model canít instead charge another model instead. As for the Garlic situation, (Iíve never used it) I assume it works like ďfearĒ check to Vampires. I believe failing that check is like failing a fear check, meaning that a model that fails a fear check isnít free to charge a different model instead; because that was all his actions. My group would say, ď(for game mechanics) Since it was a failed charge, moving from combat, that the model would be moved 1Ē away from the downed model. Therefore, would not be able to OOA the downed model that turn.Ē

As for your shooting issue, an Ally would be a ďfriendlyĒ model. You canít shoot into HtoH with a friendly model. If you wish to break the alliance, then go for it! Iíve gotten that one turned on me. Sometime, itís better to ask for forgiveness than permission.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 7021
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 15:17

Shadowphx wrote:

I believe thereís a FAQ section somewhere stating it takes all the attacks to OOA a stunned model. Just as a model couldnít OOA 2 stunned models at his feet, in the same round.

The only FAQ that I could find that touches on this subject says the opposite, that you can split your attacks between Knocked Down and or Stunned models. (Mordhiemer's Ultimate FAQ, 4.2 Attacks)

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Shadowphx
General
General


Posts : 184
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-11-05
Location : Phoenix, Az. U.S.A.

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Skaven Skaven
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Wed 2 Mar 2011 - 12:52

Itís been a while. Iíve gone through lots of research and have come up with nothing to support that 1 model canít OOA 2 other stunned models in close combat in the same turn. With that lack of evidence, I concede that point. (Good, Iíll be using that next time, Whoo Hoo!) Iíve gone through all 3 Erratas and FAQs, plus in the Annual, I have all 29 TCs, Best of TC, and EiF. I could swear I read it somewhere, but canít find where now.

Iíve been on Mordheimerís site years ago. I always thought that was a Fan Based and not an Official site. It does have some good stuff and well categorized for easy finds.

So, "LET THE BLOOD FLY! NO MERCY!" LOL
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dahag
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 222
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-05-21

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Wed 9 Mar 2011 - 14:09

actually we had quite a similar situation the other day. the centigor had 3 stunned dark elves in btb at the beginning of his turn so we spontaneously saw no reason against it that he can use one attack for each stunned model and thus put all three ooA.

But after reading this thread I realise that we should have been more reflected on this topic. as it is indeed very strong...

on the other hand it does not happen often that you have multiple stunned models at your door step with no standing enemy model to interfere...

at least I'd houserule that the "attacking" model must at least have a sufficent amount of attacks to take out an according number of stunned models.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Breaking From Combat   Today at 11:10

Back to top Go down
 
Breaking From Combat
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Spells and HtH combat
» GERMANY'S PANTHER TANK - The Quest For Combat Supremacy
» Pistol Attacks in Close Combat
» MULTIPLE COMBAT
» Javelins and close combat

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum :: General Discussion :: Rules and Gameplay-
Jump to: