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 To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant

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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Mon 14 Feb 2011 - 8:21

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Small: You mention each warband, in addition to a Warhm. Ahoy Middile Class ship, also has a "small boat". Which one did you mean? They go:

Raft, Rowboat, SailBoat (River Boat), Sloop (River Barge)
The Rowboat. The Sloop would be about the size of the Medium Ship in Ahoy!.

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Cannons: Are they move or fire? Optional Blackpowder? What's the reload? (Seems to me that a gun with 2 gunners fires every turn, 1 gunner fires every other turn, 0 gunners fires 0 times.) Difficult to move, just in case someone tried.

Edit: Changing the name of Gunners for the cannon to "Cannon Crew". Otherwise, it's hard to clarify that a Gunner from your warband (with BS4 and maybe a few skills) cannot run up to a cannon, man it, and blow up everything he sees!
We use the cannon rules from Warhammer 6th edition including that misfire table. Since BS has no impact on cannons this hasn't come up.
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Mon 14 Feb 2011 - 8:35

A-HA. I'll have to copy paste those... assuming I can find them. Did you still factor in the "bounce"? (I guess at the right angle and proper speed, cannonballs would bounce on water.)

If I recall, (in 5th ed anyway), it's declare shot distance, add artil. dice to flight, roll second art. dice for bounce, all inbetween are hit with S7, 1D3 wounds. If either dice is misfire, roll on misfire chart. Correct? How did you handle where it hit? (as in, did it always flies at deck level, hitting people, or did it ever veer low and hit the ship?

Generally, if a cannon is a man down, do you generally let a gunner (from your actual warband) run up and help, or is it crew only?
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Mon 14 Feb 2011 - 8:55

2nd Edition Warhammer Ahoy! doesn't use the bounce for shots between ships. But if you are fighting troops based on land from a ship then you factor the bounce as long as the shot lands on the beach first. I still haven't had time to look at 3rd Edition Ahoy! so I don't know if that's changed.

To confuse matters, The General's Compendium's rules for naval Warhammer do use the bounce when firing cannon form one ship to another. Since we used to use both sets of rules that was an issue for awhile. scratch

We don't allow anyone but the designated crew to man the gun.
By Ahoy! rules anyone on a ship can man a gun, but we use special crew to help people remember who is doing what on the ship. Otherwise we ran into difficulty with remembering who could fire a cannon this turn, who had moved or cast a spell or...
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Mon 14 Feb 2011 - 11:45

Bah! I'll just use the Warhammer Ahoy rules, considering I can't find the other ones. thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Mon 14 Feb 2011 - 19:32

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Bah! I'll just use the Warhammer Ahoy rules, considering I can't find the other ones. thanks!

Yes, I think that doing this is good just to keep things from getting too complex. Smile

If you are putting all of this into your rules for Sartosa then I'm really looking forward to seeing the second release of Sartosa. pirat It is great that Von Kurst is around who has done a lot of playtesting in this area of the game from which to draw inspiration/feedback.
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Tue 15 Feb 2011 - 14:52

We've always used the bounce as there are loads of mentions of cannonballs skipping across the water in the Master & Commander books! (and we like to call that historical research! Razz )
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Tue 15 Feb 2011 - 14:59

It is isn't it?

Cannon balls bouncing on water comes up in a bunch of fiction works, as does the opposite. I'm sure there's a Myth Busters episode as well! pirat

We've stuck with Warhammer Ahoy! now for more than a year so it rarely comes up anymore. Lately we are confused about drowning because Lustria uses different rules than Styro's Sartosa. Its always something.
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Tue 15 Feb 2011 - 18:37

Von: And to make things TRICKIER, the new Errata has even more altered Swimming/Drowning rules (ain't I a stinker?)

Cannons: Hmm. I've looked up the rules for cannons on Ahoy, and, as well written as they are, they're LONG. Sad to say, the page long description of cannons mentions three other sections, which are each two pages long, which reference even more pages... It might be simpler to just cite Ahoy. (The light cannons use all the rules for Naval cannons with the following exceptions. See the Ahoy rule book for details.)


Your call, of course. The locations are YOUR baby. Want me to email you the 3rd edition rules?
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Tue 15 Feb 2011 - 18:57

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Von: And to make things TRICKIER, the new Errata has even more altered Swimming/Drowning rules (ain't I a stinker?)
I did notice that.affraid


StyrofoamKing wrote:
Your call, of course. The locations are YOUR baby. Want me to email you the 3rd edition rules?
Thank you but I finally got Playtable to do it. Wink
I think citing Ahoy! is fine. I do think that the Ahoy! rules are the quick and dirty yet playable solution. If people are interested enough to write their own versions, more power to them. We could cite some alternatives--Yarrpocalypse, for example.
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Tue 15 Feb 2011 - 19:05

Ha! Never heard of that one. Any others you know of?
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Tue 15 Feb 2011 - 19:17

I begged WarbossKurgan for a copy (or downloaded one he posted). There's a couple of condensed versions of Ahoy! out there, but none that are complete or formatted. So I guess I really only know of the one. Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Tue 15 Feb 2011 - 19:32

I recall that WAAAY early in my Mordheim experience, (like the 3rd or 4th game I ever played,) my friend and I threw together a quick sea battle using lego boats. If I recall, the rules were:

ships: moved artillery dice distance each turn. "Misfire" = 0. Can only turn up to 45 degrees, or spent your move turning 90. (I think).

Cannons: used the Warhammer rules (declare, artillery, bounce artillery). To make it harder, you rolled on the Blood Bowl "thrown in bound" marker (ie. roll 1D6: 1-2 off 45 degrees left, 3-4 straight, 5-6 45 degrees left.) I think you rolled on the marker equal to the gunner's BS, and picked which one you wanted. (Which meant that you could often choose which direction you wanted, but only in three set angles, and with potential for veering off.)

Lotsa fun.
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Wed 16 Feb 2011 - 2:20

I agree with Von Kurst just to refer the reader to Ahoy! Those rules are freely available to download.

Yarrpocalypse are the rules used by Warboss Kurgan and his gaming group.
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Wed 23 Feb 2011 - 22:24

Von Kurst wrote:
Ships.
At the start of the campaign each warband is assumed to own a Warhammer Ahoy! Medium Class ship.
Each ship comes with 2 light cannon. St 7/D3 wounds per wounding hit/T7/3W/Range: 36”. 2 gunners* serve each cannon. These gunners do not need to be purchased as part of the warband. They never leave the ship except during boarding actions. They never gain experience, but they may be pressed if taken OOA and must be replaced if lost or the cannon will be undermanned in the next battle. Cannon which suffer a gun destroyed result are considered replaced/repaired in time for the next game.
The ship also comes with a small boat. This boat follows the rules for boats given in the Sartosa rules pack. The ship’s boat may be used in any scenario that includes small boats as an option.
*Non-human warbands receive either human captives/allies that man the guns or goblins, thunderers. Etc.
I've been trying to nut out rules for ships for when my gaming group starts playing pirate campaigns with ship-based scenarios. What you have done is great and makes sense and I think that I'll use them to help with my future campaigns. I do have some more questions though...

What is the cost to replace gunners? I assume that unlike guns (which are automatically repaired/replaced for free) gunners need to be rehired at a cost.

What about the ships themselves? If the ship is destroyed (or captured if that is possible) then do warbands automatically get a new Warhammer Ahoy! Medium Class ship? If not then what is the cost to purchase a Medium Class ship?

Do you ever let warbands purchase other or larger ships? If so then how do you translate the points cost in Warhammer Ahoy! into costs applicable for Mordheim (e.g. gold crowns)?
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Wed 23 Feb 2011 - 22:52

Hey RL,

Gunners cost 25 gold to replace per human gunner. We don't allow them to be armed with more than a dagger and they cannot gain experience nor do they count towards the warband rating.
Non-human warbands--I use goblins as gunners for orcs and undead bands use either humans or skeletons depending on the player's whim. Dwarfs have used dwarf warriors. So non-humans cost whatever that warrior would cost.

The guns and ships are free. And yes if you lose your ship, it is replaced for the next game. (New gun crews must be hired though.) This is not realistic but it makes the games possible. Otherwise the campaign slows down as players lose ships, etc with little likelihood of replacing them. If we want larger ships, everyone upgrades at the same time. (we haven't pulled this off yet since only Playtable and I have larger vessels and we don't have enough to equip everyone,)

Legend of the High Seas has a scenario in which you steal a ship, which you can then field as your new vessel. I've thought of doing something similar but so far all we have done is allowed players to use the larger bore cannon that can be captured in the Great Gun scenario. The big gun then usually explodes in its first battle! affraid
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Thu 24 Feb 2011 - 5:53

Thanks for your response. I had thought that losing a ship would slow down/cripple the campaign. What you do makes sense. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Thu 24 Feb 2011 - 6:07

Hmm. Something ELSE to include in the rules. Good thing I saw this BEFORE I released the Location rules.

Stealing a ship- I like it! Personally, I think "King of the Hull" would be great... it could represent your forces sneaking aboard one of your enemy's ships! (Not their flag ship, obviously).
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Wed 4 May 2011 - 10:28

LOCALES ARE DONE!!!! They can be found at

https://sites.google.com/site/styroheim/sartosa


Let me know if you spot any major errors, and I'll try to fix them as soon as I can. Bon appetite!
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PostSubject: Re: To Be A Pirate King--A Sartosan Campaign Variant    Wed 4 May 2011 - 10:39

Awesome! If I only had a regular gaming group, I'd certainly use these instantly!
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