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 Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?

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Eagle5
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PostSubject: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Wed 5 Jan 2011 - 23:03

Kind of an interesting notion, a one-armed man scaling a wall...

...while carrying equipment

...and wearing armor.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Thu 6 Jan 2011 - 1:55

I think it's already somewhat ridiculous that a man can scale a sheer wall as fast as he can walk while carrying a lance, a halberd, a crossbow, a repeater crossbow, heavy armor, a pavaise, a holy tome, a lantern, and a rope & hook.

Thus, since scaling walls is already not very realistic, I don't see any reason a one-armed man should be penalized, given that there is no rule stating as such.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Thu 6 Jan 2011 - 8:34

There is no offical rule, but I think you could make a good house rule.

I could see giving him a -1, or make it that his climbing distance is halved.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Thu 6 Jan 2011 - 9:08

The reason it's so easy and quick to climb to to encourage the use of the 3D environment that makes Mordheim such fun. Game over simulation here I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Fri 7 Jan 2011 - 5:45

"I think it's already somewhat ridiculous that a man can scale a sheer wall as fast as he can walk while carrying a lance, a halberd, a crossbow, a repeater crossbow, heavy armor, a pavaise, a holy tome, a lantern, and a rope & hook."

What Kurgen said. Also, remember it is a ruined city. I think the underlying assumption is there are piles of rubble, wholes knocked in the walls, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Fri 7 Jan 2011 - 10:29

Speaking of climbing, do you guys house rule that you don't have to be in btb with the bottom of a wall to climb? And on a similar note, do you rule that a climbing model can still charge dudes at the top of the wall, even if he can't see them when he starts his charge?

I ask because, if you do have to be in btb with the wall, and if you can't charge guys 'cause they're just over the top of the wall, then it take 2 full turns to get into hth with elevated models, and then they charge you. One turn to move into btb with the wall. One turn to actually climb. And then the enemy charges you as soon as you're up. This strict interpretation of the rules seems to make elevated positions unassailable.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Fri 7 Jan 2011 - 11:43

We let people use ladders as open terrain, moving up them in the middle of a move without penalty. But we do use the "can't climb unless you start the move in contact with the wall" rule, mainly because it stops a lot of Skaven sillyness!
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Fri 7 Jan 2011 - 13:21

@Warboss: But what about charging up a wall? My thinking is that if you're right next to a wall, you can't see the model that's 1" back from the top of that wall. Can you still charge him?
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Fri 7 Jan 2011 - 14:42

I don't think so, not in that example. You have to be able to either see or use the "Find Hidden Models" thingy. But if you can see the guy at the top you can charge via climbing.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Fri 7 Jan 2011 - 15:01

I'm arguing the same case as you guys; I love playing vertical games of Mordheim, and my post was aiming to point out that just because something is rather unrealistic, if it adds to the fun factor, so be it.

As far house rules, we allow climbing without being in BTB at the start of the turn. We also allow charging climbs. I play the 2 warbands in our group most hampered by these rules (skaven & lizardmen), but it was my idea to introduce the rules as it seemed absurdly unfair to me to take advantage of the scenario DRD1812 described in his first post.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Fri 7 Jan 2011 - 22:11

We do require you to be in base contact with the wall at the start of your turn in order to have a chance to climb it.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Fri 7 Jan 2011 - 22:27

We do the same thing. Must be in base contact with the wall you want to climb.

We never considered that we might need to add a rule for climbing and charging, we just did it. Usually there isn't much question that a model below can see the target of the charge, but if there is we use the Charging Models Out Of Sight rule or whatever its called.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 0:33

This might get a bit convoluted to implement, but I've always had issue with your character moving toward the building, seeing (and being shot at by) a model on top, but when you are in BTB with wall you no longer see the model, and possibly can't charge it. Personally, I think if you saw the model while running up, the enemy model hasn't moved, and you have the movement to do so, you should be able to charge it when you climb. After all, your model knows the enemy model is up there. Object permanence; you know, something you pick up after you're what, one year old?
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 1:28

I see what you mean but I don't want that in my games....

It would require remembering that a model saw another model in one turn to allow the charge in the next. Something I know I'm not capable of and something you can't ask you opponent to check and agree.

If you ask for their agreement the turn before you charge there is a damn good chance the model you want to charge will not be there one turn later!

For the "realism" it adds to the game it's not worth the fuss, in my book at least.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 2:10

WarbossKurgan wrote:
I see what you mean but I don't want that in my games....

It would require remembering that a model saw another model in one turn to allow the charge in the next. Something I know I'm not capable of and something you can't ask you opponent to check and agree.

If you ask for their agreement the turn before you charge there is a damn good chance the model you want to charge will not be there one turn later!

For the "realism" it adds to the game it's not worth the fuss, in my book at least.

That's why you should take a high resolution, digital photograph of the map each each turn.




















... just kidding
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 8:16

lol! WbK's battles are probably the most photographed miniature games on the web.

Its probably one of our most complicated house rules, but we play that a model at the base of a wall CAN see and be seen by someone in base contact with the same wall but at a higher elevation provided there is a window or only a low parapet between them.

The model above is assumed to lean out to shoot at the guy below and the guy below is credited with enough awareness. If the elevated model is an inch or more from the edge of the wall then the lower model must climb in one turn and charge in another or make a roll to charge enemies out of sight.
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 10:15

Von Kurst wrote:
lol! WbK's battles are probably the most photographed miniature games on the web.
Probably. I was trying to come up with a polite but funny way of saying that - Von Kurst beat me to it!
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PostSubject: Re: Amputated Arm: Can Model Still Climb?   Today at 4:57

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