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shotguncoffee
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PostSubject: Phased Deployment   Sat 4 Dec 2010 - 9:33

Now regarding this thread: http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/rules-and-gameplay-f1/two-potentially-fatal-problems-t4641.htm

It would seem that phased deployment could solve both of these issues. What is phased deployment? If you have played Company of Heroes, you already know.

Phased deployment imposes restrictions on deploying your warband so that you cannot depoy your entire warband up front and then clumb together for the entire fight. Here is how it would work:

- You gain 10 Manpower (MP) each turn which you get to spend on deployment.

(A Leader costs 8 MP to deploy, a mid-class-hero 6 MP, a Youngblood-class-hero 4 MP.)
(Henchmen cost 3 MP to deploy per henchman.)
(Monsters cost 7 MP to deploy.)
(If you want to deploy more than one type of unit each turn, this costs +3 MP.)

* Example #1: So if you Deploy a mid-class-hero and a Youngblood-class-hero this costs 6 + 4 + 3 = 13 MP
* Example #2: If you deploy two henchmen from two different groups, this costs 3 + 3 + 3 = 9 MP
* Example #3: Four Marksmen, members of the same henchmen group: 4 x 3 = 12 MP
* Example #4 A Marksman and a Swordsman, from two different groups: 3 + 3 + 3 = 9 MP

(The +3 MP cost for deploying more than one hero or type of unit stacks.)**

** Example #1: One Youngblood-class-hero, a Swordsman, and a Leader = 4 + 3 + 8 + 3 + 3 = 21 MP
** Example #2: Three Youngblood-class-heroes = 4 + 4 + 4 + 3 + 3 = 18 MP

Now as I said, each turn you gain +10 MP.

Around the table there should be checkpoints: If you hold these uncontestedly, you gain extra MP.

- The exact value of the exta MP should vary according to the scenario, between +2 MP and + 5 MP.

WHY IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?
- Players must rush forward to hold points = no camping
- Players must spread out to capture points = no clumbing
- Warband enters game gradually = more strategic descisions
- Encourages players to use henchmen groups, rather than power-levelling
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PostSubject: Re: Phased Deployment   Sat 4 Dec 2010 - 10:13

Well, I definitely can't knock it till I tried it, but here's a few things that come to mind:

~You'd have to eliminate All-Alone, I think... otherwise, the fact that you're trickling in could really hurt your guys.

~Are the deployment zones the same normal?

~Do unused MP stack from turn to turn?

~I've never played Company of Heroes, but I suspect everyone moves the exact same pace... in Mord, however, every race moves differently... which means if this system was implemented every game, the faster races (elves, skaven), would ALWAYS have an advantage. Sure, they already have a boost in many "pick up loot" scenarios, but this is balanced by the fact that not every game is a pick-up loot scenario.

~Definitely hurts slower warbands and larger warbands, I would estimate. By the time your Magister and 2 possessed are halfway across the board, half of my dwarves aren't even on the table yet.

~How does infiltrate work? Would it be an additional +3 cost or something? HAVE to deploy them before deploying non-infiltrate units? Can you drop them straight into a checkpoint, and if so, do you get points?


My suggestion is to write it into a scenario... that gives you a chance to test it out, without having to retool the ENTIRE campaign rules. For the sake of the scenario, I suggest you have the "different henchmen groups" restriction lifted... if the system works, pop it back in when you implement it in full (otherwise, you're punishing people mid-campaign for what is otherwise a standard practice.) Change it temporarily to "+3 for different TYPES of henchmen.*

When /if you finally do implement it, I recommend you switch it up in any given game... maybe in each given game, you gain 1D4 x 5 MP every turn (once rolled, stays consistent for each turn and for all players). That way, some games have a painfully slow trickle of units, while others will let you put out your entire force in 2-3 turns. This helps avoid the "only the fast races win" problem I mentioned earlier.

MP cost - another idea... what if you used the base cost of the unit, divided by 5? A Captain costs 8, a Champion 6, a Youngblood 3, a Warrior 5. A Possessed costs a whopping 18. (Of course, this might mean you raise the MP values higher still.)

*Power-Leveling: Personally, I don't see anything wrong with power-leveling... sure, it's a little cheesy, but not unfairly so... not only that, but I kind of like that idea that instead of a group of 3 nameless crossbowmen, each one has his own name and personality. The only time it becomes REAL cheesy to me is when you don't tell new players about the advantages of it... if you hoard that strategy for yourself, and are reaping the benefits of 6 heroes while newbs are stuck with lumped henchmen, you're hardly a fair player.
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PostSubject: Re: Phased Deployment   Sat 4 Dec 2010 - 10:39

I think a scenario would be a great idea. But make it way less compicated. The above is too much work for a half hour game.

I don't think All Alone would need to go. Its such a rarely used rule that it might actually get used. "Gasp"



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PostSubject: Re: Phased Deployment   Sat 4 Dec 2010 - 16:13

I like this idea, and will try it after I see the effects my Token system has (only changing one thing at a time). My one concern, as already noted, is the Skaven being faster than everyone else. We only play with the standard 8 warbands, so there may be others that would gain an additional advantage as well. Hmm, infiltration may be an issue as well. I guess I would change it to reduce their deployment cost and make them start as others. I don't know. Guess there's a whole lot of unforseen consequences here. I do want to try the idea though if there's still an issue in our games.

Thanks for posting details.
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PostSubject: Re: Phased Deployment   Sat 4 Dec 2010 - 20:56

Infiltration: How's this-

Infiltrate guys start off the board... at any time you claim MPs for a Checkpoint, you may use them as you NORMALLY use them, OR you may use them to pay for a hero to infiltrate into that checkpoint (if it's a building, any floor). If the hero's deployment cost is LESS than the MPs earned, the difference is lost. If the cost is MORE, you must pay the additional cost.

EX: You have a Skaven Stormvermin with Infiltrate... once a model steals into a building in the center of the board, claiming a building worth 10 points. During the next turn, you can use all 10 bonus point as normal, or you can use it to deploy the Stormvermin in any part of that building (but not into combat). If the building gave only 5 bonus, it'd require one of your extra MP points.

Keeping It Simple: How's this very a SIMPLE, demo-version- each hero costs 5, and each henchmen costs 3. You get 10 per turn, and may save up. Searching a building (that's not in the deployment zone), gets you +3 points for your next turn. For the prototype scenario, no Infiltrating allowed.
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PostSubject: Re: Phased Deployment   Tue 7 Dec 2010 - 10:24

I would like the idea that Non-exp gaining henchmen can be deployed for a little less. Maybe 2?

But if we are doing a points system like this why not go all out and make different types of buildings give other points as well, or make the points spendable for other bonuses.

Examples:
These all would last until end of player's next movement phase unless said otherwise, one may be used per objective controlled each turn. These also only apply when within 2" of a objective (or a model in the melee is within).

5 pts - Hold your ground lads! All friendly models within 2" of the selected objective may use the highest Ld of the group present (so a mini-leader effect).
3 pts - Never give up! Target model contesting a location becomes immune to all alone and fear while within 2" of target objective and not within 6" of any allies.
5 pts - With me! If targeted model passes a fear test to charge an enemy all other friendly models that charge the same model automatically pass as well. This does nothing for models that cannot gain exp.
5 pts - Look what I found! target model within 2" of an objective finds a single use handgun that always uses the blackpowder misfire rules. This must be used this turn. The gun is destroyed after the use.
3 pts - That was left handed! model gains trick shot skill for one turn. This may only be used if firing a single shot this turn.
10 pts - Sigmar(Shadowlord/Verminlord/Gork) Guide my blade! Leader becomes fearless, immune to all alone and Immune to pain.

Do people like the idea of something like this? This would hopefully encourage people to hold objectives even after they have have deployed. You would have to retain control of an objective even if you move away though. otherwise small teams like witch hunters or restless dead would have a hard time.
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PostSubject: Re: Phased Deployment   Today at 23:57

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