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Goglutin
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PostSubject: About the Lance ?   Wed 24 Nov 2010 - 12:05

The lance offer a +2S for mounted warrior.
The +2S when charging is over the first one (for a total 0f +4S) or it is some kind of misprint ?

Thx
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sartori
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PostSubject: Re: About the Lance ?   Wed 24 Nov 2010 - 14:56

Not +4 Strength...
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Goglutin
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PostSubject: Re: About the Lance ?   Wed 24 Nov 2010 - 15:07

So .. paying 20g for a weapon you can only use mounted and offer an advantage just on the charge is totally ridiculous...
I 'll get swords/axes/maces for my all my mounted units from now on...

Also - if you read the spear- it have the same kind of mounted advantage (+1S) and its not included in the basic bonuses so I'm still not sure the lance dont offer +4S on the charge and +2S as a basic bonus
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: About the Lance ?   Wed 24 Nov 2010 - 15:37

The +2 is a relic. During design the weapon was +2 strength with a special rule saying it only worked on the charge, then they decided to make it so that it was base strength user and had a special rule saying it only got +2 strength on the charge. Sadly, their quality control was not as could as it could be and ended up with *both*.
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PostSubject: Re: About the Lance ?   Wed 24 Nov 2010 - 16:57

Not asking "Why should", but "How could" a lance be used in any other situation than a charge? When already locked in combat, there simply is no possibility to use a weapon like a lance appropriately, nay? So much for fluff.

As for a rules precedence, compare the morning star - "Strength: As user +1" in its statistics, special rule clarifying that this bonus (not another one) only applies for the first round of combat.
Why should the special rules of the lance be related to another +2 bonus than the one mentioned in its base statistics?


Living Rule Book, p. 27 wrote:
Cavalry weapon: A warrior must own a warhorse to use a lance, as it can only be used
whilst he is on horseback.
Cavalry bonus: If using optional rules for mounted models, a warrior armed with a lance
receives a +2 Strength bonus when he charges. This bonus only applies for that turn.

So, no horse, no lance. Clear.
With horse, +2 bonus, but in the round of charging. Also clear.
Base statistics mentioning S+2, special rules clarifying a +2 bonus only applying when charging. Why should there be two +2 boni involved? scratch
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PostSubject: Re: About the Lance ?   Wed 24 Nov 2010 - 17:55

I asked about this on the SG forums back in March. Da Bank answered my question. As already mentioned, the wording for the Lance is wrong and it only gives +2S (and not +4S) when charging.

Here is the link to the forum...
http://www.sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php?topic=1228.0

@Mephysto...
You are right, fluffwise a Lance can only be used when charging. Thankfully the Mordheim rules partially support this fluff by letting a warrior drop the Lance and choose another weapon in the second and future rounds of combat (refer to the Mordheim Errata available on the GW web site). Unfortunately the rules as written do not enforce a change of weapons so the rules also let the Lance be used in subsequent rounds of combat which is not fluffy.

As for the rules for the Lance being clear... well you should read the rules for the Spear and the Lance side-by-side (the rules are all listed in the linked thread above). This is where the confusion in the wording becomes apparent because both weapons use the "Cavalry Bonus" special rule which has exactly the same wording (except for bonus strength applied) and yet the base strength for the Spear is "As user" while the base strength for the Lance is "As user +2". Straight reading of the rules then implies that the +2 for the Lance when charging is an additional +2 on top of the "As user +2". You are correct though that the Lance is a horse-only weapon while the spear can be used both on and off a horse so this is a restriction to the Lance which a Spear does not have.
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StyrofoamKing
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PostSubject: Re: About the Lance ?   Fri 26 Nov 2010 - 15:47

Mephysto wrote:
So, no horse, no lance. Clear.

Awww, man... NOW I gotta write a goblin hired sword/DP that charges people with a lance WHILE ON FOOT. If that doesn't work, maybe give him something like a bicycle or a unicycle.

I've seen lances, actually... (I'm a Ren Faire actor). They're extremely long, but I can still imagine someone using it in hand to hand, if they were really overwhelmed. It would be hard to hit someone rushing at your side, but behing side swiped with a long piece of wood could still knock someone down.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: About the Lance ?   Fri 26 Nov 2010 - 16:42

If you are using a lance on foot it becomes a pike.
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PostSubject: Re: About the Lance ?   Sat 27 Nov 2010 - 7:23

I guess... a pike is generally longer and heavier.
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Mephysto
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PostSubject: Re: About the Lance ?   Sun 28 Nov 2010 - 11:00

StyrofoamKing wrote:
I've seen lances, actually... (I'm a Ren Faire actor). They're extremely long, but I can still imagine someone using it in hand to hand, if they were really overwhelmed. It would be hard to hit someone rushing at your side, but behing side swiped with a long piece of wood could still knock someone down.

Of course you can, in a technical way, but by no means in that effective way it is designed to be used in and which would be the premise for a +2 Strength bonus in game terms, methinks?

And a pike, alone and not in a formation, against infantry enemies? At least I would choose another option. Wink

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Awww, man... NOW I gotta write a goblin hired sword/DP that charges people with a lance WHILE ON FOOT. If that doesn't work, maybe give him something like a bicycle or a unicycle.
Or give the unicycle to the lance! Laughing
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