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 Warband Balance 'Tiers'

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BalrogTheBuff
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PostSubject: Warband Balance 'Tiers'   Wed 17 Nov 2010 - 13:16

Is there any commonly accepted list of which are balanced/fair or a tier system in place for Mordheim? I know WFB and Blood Bowl have tiers in place. I am talking about a campaign starting from the beginning, not one off games.

I am hoping for something more than my theoryhammer list I have, and what better place than here to get actual playtested experience.

If there isn't one in place I would suggest a 5 tier system split into the following:
(1) Very Powerful - Warbands that either perform too well, or have blatantly unbalanced rules, team that many would not allow in a structured league. Example - Elf warbands?

(2) Above Average - Teams that tend to do better than average, or require experienced players to defeat regularly. Perfect for beginners. Example - Skaven?

(3) Average - Teams that are right in the middle of the power Spectrum. I would assume most warbands would fall into this catagory. Example - Mercs?

(4) Challenging - These warbands require a bit of experience to pull off, or tend to be slightly weaker than others. But not horribly so. Perfect for those looking for a challenge or a fun twist on the game while remaining competative. Example - Undead based on what people tell me

(5) Just-for-fun - These warbands are very weak or have a crippling weakness in their rules. They may be awesome and fun, but doubtfully will win. Example - Halflings?


My theoryhammer rates them something like this (only looked at some obviously)
1 - Shadow Warriors, Lizardmen
2 - Skaven, Dwarfs, Reiklanders, Beastmen, CoC, Black Dwarfs
3 - O&G, Marienburgers, Sisters of Sigmar, Witch Hunters, Possessed, Marauders, Monks, Norse
4 - Undead, Middenheimers, Merchants, Pit Fighters, Restless Dead,
5 - Halflings? Snotling Avengers (i'll post eventually)

Feel free to rip the list apart. I freely admit I have comparativly little experience. I will edit the list as people chime in. Or the mods can do it if they prefer.
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StyrofoamKing
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PostSubject: Re: Warband Balance 'Tiers'   Wed 17 Nov 2010 - 14:24

It's a smart idea, but truth be told, you're not going to find any two players who agree on ANY single rating for a warband. Due to house rules, and of course, the way a player handles them, two warbands will be completely different strength (which, I suppose, is the mark of a good game system!)

Although I'm curious to see your Snotlings... shoot, I have yet to post the Snotling list I helped Ram Rock make on my website... it's a LOT of fun.
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BalrogTheBuff
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PostSubject: Re: Warband Balance 'Tiers'   Wed 17 Nov 2010 - 15:02

I'll have lost what i had, but working on it now and hope to have it at least presentable fairly soon.

And I expect this to be a fluid system, but usually a majority of players can agree on generic classifications.

If people prefer let's break it down into difficulty to play, but ignoring if they WIN or not. Mostly I want to have a list to aid new players in determining what warbands might be best. I have seen several posts that talk about similar ideas but never seen a list of those ideas compiled.

Beginner-Friendly: Skaven, Reiklanders etc.
Standard: Witch Hunters, Sisters, Dwarfs
Challenging: Undead, Orcs and Goblins (animosity is frustrating for newbies)

I think this would allow for a ranking that can be agreed on, without worrying about balance. Is this a practical goal?
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StyrofoamKing
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PostSubject: Re: Warband Balance 'Tiers'   Wed 17 Nov 2010 - 21:01

Ah, well EASE of play, that's a different story. That you can get folks to agree on. "Play better" is a misleading term, but "more straightforward" is something slightly less subjective.
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whiskeytango
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PostSubject: Re: Warband Balance 'Tiers'   Wed 17 Nov 2010 - 22:15

I've always felt like the easiest warband to start with was reiklanders. They just always seemed like the Ryu of Mordheim to me. Largely forgiving as far as leadership goes, great ranged fighters, good close combat, not real expensive.

They were also my first warband, so that probably has alot to do with it.
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MeanBone
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PostSubject: Re: Warband Balance 'Tiers'   Thu 18 Nov 2010 - 1:22

Played a Street Fight just a couple of weeks ago with two newly generated warbands, Reiklanders vs. Skaven. In that scenario, with such limited room to maneuver, it was like a shooting gallery for the Reik marksmen (four shooters with bows).

If you haven't played this one lately, the buildings on each side of the street can be accessed, but you can't go behind them, so eventually the Skaven had to expose themselves somewhat to fire, and a couple were OOA by the time the hand-to-hand fighting started. In the back-and-forth charge and countercharge, the Reik captain used his pistols to take out another Verminkin, and at that point the Skaven had to start taking rout tests.

After a couple of turns the rats routed, with four OOA (at the end, a Black Skaven charged a Reik Champion and rolled poorly, then got shot and clubbed in the face). The Reiklanders suffered no casualties.

It can really depend on the scenario and the terrain layout, but the Reik are a solid crew.

It can be a rock-paper-scissors kind of thing with ranking the warbands. For example, Sisters and Witch Hunters tend to do better against Possessed and Undead, but can struggle vs. Mercs and Skaven. On the other hand, Possessed and Undead can give Mercs and Skaven more problems because of fear. So a lot can depend on the makeup of the warbands in the particular campaign.
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PostSubject: Re: Warband Balance 'Tiers'   Thu 18 Nov 2010 - 6:42

I don't think that the Lizardmen are as Unbalanced as the Shadow Warriors, I would bump them down to tier 2. Although I can see the arguement for 1.

Every Wood Elve list I have ever seen has been tier 1 or 2 mostly 1.

Dark Elf would be tier 2.

Maneaters would be tier 1 or 2, I would lean towards 2 though. The extra wounds makes them tough to take OOA, Bull Charge is unbalanced, but that is all tempered by their cost, slow witted (advances cost double the exp), and limit of 12.

Amazons I would put in 2 or 3, leaning towards 3.

Most of the Clan Pestilens Skaven list I would put under 3.

Most of the Tomb Guard lists I have seen have been 3 or 4. I would lean towards 4.
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PostSubject: Re: Warband Balance 'Tiers'   Fri 19 Nov 2010 - 6:33

Well, I'm going to skip numbers, and go straight to tags:

Easy
Medium
Hard
OMG YOU'RE CRAZY

Here's the ones I've played

Mercenaries: Easy, especially reik -they're the "Mario" of mordheim, with equal strength
Possessed - Easy #1 heroes, awesome beastmen henches. Little worries about equipment.
Pirates - Easy - as versatile as mercs, with the best weapon ever.
Dwarf - Medium - winning a "pick up treasure" game is impossible, but in every other way, an "easy" warband
Undead - Hard - three speeds of units, only 1 good hero, and slow growth.
Ghost Pirates - Medium - some of the same problem as the Undead, but closer to base humans
Khorne Raiders - Medium - the temptation comes from wanting to play them as chaos warriors, when they are not much stronger than the Norse.
Slayer Cult - Hard - same strengths as the dwarves, but none of the long range, and no armor. Under the current rules, anyone playing for "fluff" will find it hard to play bravely without hurting for it.
Slayer Pirates - Medium - A near fearless dwarf warband with blunderbusses and pistols. The range of the old band, the brash craziness of the slayers.
Araby Smugglers - Easy - start with strong champions, and the merchant (with his special skills and rules), means that money will be coming in
Snotlings - OMG YOU'RE CRAZY - a wheelo that breaks itself, only 3 models with decent stats, and a shaman that is more effective as a suicide bomber than a hero? Yeah, you gotta be crazy.
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PostSubject: Re: Warband Balance 'Tiers'   Today at 14:51

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