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Strange



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PostSubject: Game balance   Wed 27 Oct 2010 - 1:44

Hi folks.

I tried to a forum search on the topic and couldn't find anything. If there is a thread just point the way!

So my group is starting up a Mordheim campaign and are a little worried about balance. We've heard all the talk about DW epicness and armour lameness. My question is about warbands.

Are any of the official warbands horribly underpowered, is there somehting we should steer away from?
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RationalLemming
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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Wed 27 Oct 2010 - 3:38

Welcome to the forum! Very Happy The official rules and official warbands are by and large balanced.

It is true that the game favours arming warriors with two weapons and armour is generally not worth the cost. Both of these can pretty much be fixed with a single change by giving shields and bucklers an extra +1 Armour Save when used with a single handed weapon. This makes armour slightly more powerful for a cheap cost. It makes shields and bucklers slightly more worthwhile as opposed to always using a second weapon. As armour becomes more useful so too do double-handed weapons.

Anyway, that was not your question. I think that the warbands are all pretty good. Some people feel that Middenheimer mercenaries and undead are a little bit underpowered and some people feel that skaven are slightly overpowered. Others disagree though. I don't think that you will have any problems using any of the official warbands (and there are a lot of good and balanaced unofficial warbands out there also).
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WarbossKurgan
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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Wed 27 Oct 2010 - 3:59

We always tried to have "Winning the campaign" as a separate set of criteria from "Winning lots of games" (there is a good thread about that issue here: Campaign victory conditions)

That way the balance of one warband type against another, or even a new warband against an experienced one, doesn't matter as much.

Very Happy Welcome to the forum Strange!
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Wed 27 Oct 2010 - 5:29

Welcome to the forum!

In my experience, the official Mordheim warbands are surprisingly well balanced given their diversity. I suspect many "X are overbalanced" opinions are rooted in the reality that "X just won our campaign and I wasn't playing them".

The warbands created for the Lustria/Cities of Gold setting include some fun ones, but they tend to be a bit more powerful than the Mordheim bands.

About a year ago my group switched to the shield variation RationalLemming mentioned, and shield and hand weapon users are much more common now - although some prefer duel wielding still. In short, it does seem to be a fix that makes both options attractive.
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Strange



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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Wed 27 Oct 2010 - 5:57

Thanks for the replies.

Had a test game last night where I played Beastmen against Witch Hunters. It was pretty brutal in close combat since the Beastmen are s4 t4 against humans at s3 t3. I'm guessing it got so because we played the skirmish scenario on a fairly small table(close combat in turn 3).

The witch hunters had crossbows but it felt that the move-or-shoot seemed rather inflexible, though s4 was good. What is the normal consensus on ranged weapon types as such?

Thanks for the tips on the shield - hand weapon combo. Amrour does seem rather overpriced compared to usefullness. I think we will have to give it a try since all models we had with shields never got an armour save yesterday due to streangth and axes.
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WarbossKurgan
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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Wed 27 Oct 2010 - 6:56

I've always thought Crossbows are the best ranged weapon in the game. S4 more than off-sets the move-or-fire issue for me. (Handguns are move-or-fire AND slow to load).

But generally a very large number of S3 shots with some skills and high BS is much more effective. Ask anyone who has faced an experienced shooty warband!

The main thing to remember is that Mordheim is a game for the long-run of a campaign. It may seem unfair after one game but some scenarios are easier for some warbands than others.
Very Happy
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Wed 27 Oct 2010 - 11:42

Never ignore the vagaries of luck. The only beastman warband I ran in a competitive campaign were routinely slaughtered by S3 shooting, despite their T4. Even when I was paranoid as hell and only allowed one volley against them before charging, they always managed to lose 2+ models in that one round of shooting. Maybe it was the weird birthmarks they had (old Far Side cartoon, sorry), but it was pretty consistent.

Anyway - crossbows are good, but they need room to be effective. If you are playing on a smallish table, the Witch Hunters should be investing in pistols.




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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Wed 27 Oct 2010 - 13:24

This is just MY minor opinion, but the Nemesis Crown warbands seemed a little outside the normal strength range (too strong, or two weak). Experienced players probably know how to counteract that (good dispersal of money, proper hiding techniques, etc), but I wouldn't recommend them to a new group.
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WarbossKurgan
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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Thu 28 Oct 2010 - 4:51

mweaver wrote:
Maybe it was the weird birthmarks they had (old Far Side cartoon, sorry),



Very Happy
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l00
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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Sat 6 Nov 2010 - 8:04

I never played the original Mordhiem, but I have played many games of Coreheim, and I can tell you, its very balanced!
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PostSubject: Re: Game balance   Sun 7 Nov 2010 - 15:36

l00 wrote:
I never played the original Mordhiem, but I have played many games of Coreheim, and I can tell you, its very balanced!

It is also a very different game. Wink
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