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Jellitin



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PostSubject: Wood Elves rules   Fri 15 Oct 2010 - 19:35

I was wondering what rule set most people use to represent wood elves in Mordheim. I was interested in playing as wood elves to motivate myself to pain some more of my Warhammer army. So... yeah.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Fri 15 Oct 2010 - 20:16

In our current campaign our Stirwood outlaw player is using Wood Elf models for his outlaws. There are no 'official' warband rules.

A search of Rules and Gameplay might turn up last years experimental Wood Elf warband by StryrofoamKing and friends. They also posted on the Specialist Games Mordheim forum.


Last edited by Von Kurst on Sat 16 Oct 2010 - 11:18; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Sat 16 Oct 2010 - 3:20

You don't tend to find kinbands of Asrai adventuring around.

More commonly individuals involve themselves with the affairs of men as scouts and protectors. Rangers and hunters cross paths for good or ill in the wilds claimed to fall under the lordship of barons and other nobles who hold a title. This gives grounds to include a wood elf hireling in your warband, or else treat them as your enemy.

Next week, a handy reference will be released covertly by myself with the help of Cianty, in relation to encouraging the above.

The best place to find wood elves outside of their secluded domain in Athel Loren, is in the company of other elves.

Have you ever fought a naval battle on an elven Man O'War? Wardancers, sometimes entire troupes of these deadly warriors, are known to join the crews of elven seafarers.

The largest community of elves in the Old World can be found in Marienburg. Sith Rionnasc'namishathir is what's known as the Elf Quarter or 'Elftown'. It is inhabited mostly by the Uranai (sea elves) and the Asur but the Asrai visit Elftown with some arrivals becoming resident here.

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Werekin.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Sat 16 Oct 2010 - 9:00

Longish post - sorry!

GW did a warband of Shadow Elves, but never did wood elves. There are two or three fan-built rules for woodie warbands out there.

The Shadow Elves were part of the Cities of Gold/Lustria campaign. GW playtested warbands for their campaigns only against other warbands of that campaign - so CoG warbands were playtested to balance against each other, but not against Mordheim warbands. The CoG warbands were slightly more powerful, on the whole, than Mordheim warbands (and the warbands for the Khemri campaign were very weak compared to the Mordheim bands). Of course, players cheerfully use CoG warbands in Mordheim. The pretty firm consensus of those who have played the Shadow Elves, or played in campaigns with them, is that they are over-powered. Between the seriously superior stat lines they boast, and their 5" movement, they are seriously kick-ass using the Mordheim rules. Their only weakness is that they are expensive to hire, and if a Shadow Elf warband suffers early fatalities, it can be hard for them to bounce back. But if they make it through the first few games without serious casualties they will dominate a campaign, every time. GW finally dropped the warband - in the last rules review they pulled them from the list of warbands and said they were reconsidering them.

At the same time GW dumped the shadow elves, they moved the dwarf warband from experimental to official (at least, I think that review was the first time the stunties were made "official"). Like the Shadow Elves, the dwarves have stat lines that are much better than most warbands. But there are built-in rules with the dwarves that do make them fairly balanced compared to other warbands: they only move 3" (speed is very important in Mordheim), they only start with four heroes (Shadow Elves start with five, none of whom are crappy youngblood types), and two of their four heroes cannot use missile weapons or wear armor.

Probably the simplest thing for you to do is to use the Shadow Elf rules as a proxy for your Wood Elves. Or,more balanced, as von Kurst suggested you could use the woodsy Outlaws of Stirwood forest rules and just use Wood Elf models. Rules-wise, that is the best way since the Outlaws, while a good shooty band, seem to me to be reasonably balanced with Mordheim bands. The problem is of course that your Wood Elves would have puny human stats (slower than other elves, etc.).

With input from Mordheim players on Warseer, I did a revision of the Shadow Elves that was intended to keep their essential elfnicity - I didn't nurf their stats, but instead cut them back to four starting heroes and, emphasizing their scarcity, required search rolls to hire new recruits after the warband is initially created. I liked the result - but I have never had a chance to playtest them. If you are interested in looking at those rules, email me and I can send them to you (my username here @rgv.rr.com).

In general, keep in mind that the more cover you crowd on a table, the less effective long-range swhooting (from elves, Reiklanders, outlaws etc.) becomes. So if you and your friends play on a crowded table, shooty warbands will be less of a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Sat 16 Oct 2010 - 11:16

@mweaver--Your version of 'official' warbands is one I haven't heard before. My understanding was that Dwarfs and Orcs were written by a GW staffer (or at least contracted) wereas CoG was an independent fan created setting that GW then published in TC.

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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Sat 16 Oct 2010 - 13:51

Cities of Gold may have been fan created - I just remember reading from one of the creators that they had only playtested with other warbands for that setting. Orcs and Dwarves were created for Mordheim, and so were created to balance them. From our group's experience, the CoG warbands are a bit stronger than Mordheim, but not so much to be a problem, except for the shadow elves (the dark elves don't seem quite as powerful as the shadow elves).
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Mon 18 Oct 2010 - 9:07

Most of the Wood Elve rules are extremely unbalanced and over powered. If you want to play something that is more fair, then I would suggest using the Reiklander warband list, it gives you the shooty, but it isn't too powerful.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Mon 18 Oct 2010 - 16:56

But they don't have pointy ears!
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Tue 19 Oct 2010 - 9:19

the Mordheimer site has a Brahm based list.

Or, to make a suggestion, use the Shadow Elf list, but use the Priest of Taal spell list.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Tue 19 Oct 2010 - 16:40

Cities of Gold was a fan-orientated campaign production and keeps very true to realm of its setting.

Unlike the Dark Elves though, the Shadow Warriors was one of the commissioned warband articles for Mordheim published in Town Cryer, along with the Dwarf Treasure Hunters, Kislevites, and Orcs & Goblins.

Elves are slippery devils, according to dwarfs more slippery than machine oil!

If you can't man up and deal with a bunch of pretentious skirt-wearing pussies then build yourself some decent terrain to block their line of sight. Smile

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Stuart.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Tue 19 Oct 2010 - 16:45

p.s. Thanks for your encouraging email Styrodude. If you'll just allow us to spill our heretical guts a little, with introductory planned weekly updates. Wink

p.p.s. A dwarf warband (of sorts) was included in Border Town Burning. Perhaps a new concept for an elf warband will appear in a future campaign setting.
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PostSubject: Re: Wood Elves rules   Wed 20 Oct 2010 - 8:48

The problem with Elves is that they are loosely based on Warhammer, and when you are building armies even a small point cost difference can lead to a significant size difference in armies, but when you are limited to 12 to 20 models having 12 models excellent models without any real flaw can be exploited a lot most easily then 15 average models or 20 models with flaws.

Also shooting is really powerful in Mordheim, just like in real life. So a good shooty army can often take down a melee army with little or no losses without the risk of getting into melee combat. So they can grow more quickly, because they are replacing fewer models.

All of this adds-up to the perfect storm of Elves being unbalanced. They are cheap when you consider what you are getting for the cost, they exploit the shooting rules, and also that 5 movement is pretty sweet.
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