HomeFAQSearchRegisterUsergroupsBlogLog inGolden Tom 2014 Thread!

Share | 
 

 (Anti-) Troll equipment?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Dahag
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 222
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-05-21

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 7:14

hi all,

as I happened to get enough money for a troll after the latest game (hurray Smile ), I now wonder if there is some equipment he might be able to carry. Healing Herbs for example lol!

no, seriously, the rules states that "in any event, Trolls can never be given weapons or armour.". but how about other stuff?

I'd rather guess that he can't but I'd like to hear other opinions nevertheless... Smile

and a second thing: I now suddenly became very afraid of fire. It seems to me that torches are astonishingly cheap regarding their potential. Am I biased here, or should they be actually toned down a little?

(I can live with fire arrows and fire bombs fairly easily as they seem to be balanced out. But torches make my troll really sad and wanna hide during the whole game Very Happy)


Last edited by Dahag on Wed 8 Sep 2010 - 4:53; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Speckie
Captain
Captain


Posts : 74
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-09-05

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 7:33

If he suffers fro stupidity then i'd say no? I mean if he can't even move properly then doubt he'd know how to use herbs, maybe he puts them up his nose or something...

aactually i am going to say yes he should,. but if he is stupid, make him take a Leadership test to use it, but then if he failes the item is lost... up his bum?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Keylan
Champion
Champion


Posts : 52
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-02
Location : Hamburg / Germany

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 8:49

Henchmen cant take equipment at all.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WarbossKurgan
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 2867
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2007-10-04
Age : 45
Location : Morkchester, UK

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 9:33

Keylan is right, Trolls are Henchmen, so "Trolls can never be given weapons or armour." is all it needs to say since that is all Henchmen are ever allowed to use.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.flameon.co.uk
Dahag
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 222
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-05-21

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 10:03

right, of course. no hero, no equipment (unless stated otherwise). seems sensible to me. thanks Smile

and what do you think about torches and regeneration? I do think that regeneration is one big advantage of the troll. given the fact that it costs a warrior only a 2gc to ignore regeneration completely, seems very (too?) strong to me.

of course, a torch must be bought again after each game in which it was used. but the troll has "only" toughness 4. so without regeneration he might die pretty fast i guess...

I must say I have no experience using a troll so maybe I'm overrating torches here.... but on the other hand I guess that opponents will think quite differently about this matter, isn't it?

So I would love to hear your experiences from both sides...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 7006
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 10:35

I don't understand your concern. The troll can't die under the rules as written. Loosen up a bit.

Our group plays that if the troll is taken OOA by a fire based attack THEN it must roll for injury. Everybody threatens dire troll burnings but I haven't lost one yet. (I always start with a troll.)

If people are going to use torches then just agree on the rules you are using and soldier on. The torch breaking on a to hit roll of a 1 is a biggie we always forget. People tend to remember only the catching on fire rule, none of the downsides.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dahag
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 222
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-05-21

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 15:45

Actually I do not need to loosen up a bit. I just wanted to hear others' opinions. so thank you for yours Smile

actually, I'm not so much afraid to lose the troll overall as that's not possible but that he might not achieve alot in battle due to fire attacks of torches and similar stuff. At the moment, it seems to me that a troll does serve rather defensive purposes rather than offensive ones. at least if encoutering a massive amount of fire attacks. but I guess I might overrate the probability for this to happen...

I recently reread the description of torches and was astonished what you can achieve with only 2gc. however, the effects of the torch are admittedly strongly situational, too.

Broken torch on a 1? that must be a house rule, isn't it? At least I never heard of that rule I guess...


Last edited by Dahag on Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 15:55; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Speckie
Captain
Captain


Posts : 74
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-09-05

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 15:49

I think what VonKurst meant by "loosen up" was don't worry, Trolls are notoriously pretty hardy creatures and I doubt a torch or really any weapon will do too much damage unless the dice are for your opponent but against you.

You're doing the right thing by thinking of all the situations, but in practice it always seems that it comes down to the dice, don't you agree?

I have not read about a broken torch on a 1 either, and I have read the rules recently... being new and all, so i'd like to find out if that's a house rule too.

-Speckie
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dahag
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 222
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-05-21

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 16:05

Speckie wrote:
I think what VonKurst meant by "loosen up" was don't worry, Trolls are notoriously pretty hardy creatures and I doubt a torch or really any weapon will do too much damage unless the dice are for your opponent but against you.

you are right. thanks for mentioning.... I guess I must experience that hardiness myself. I fail to see it if I'm looking on the mere profile of the troll. I have a bad tradition of regeneration rolls with my hydras in WHFB, maybe that's why Smile And a model always looks three times more frightening if standing on the other side of the battle field, isn't it Smile

@VonKurst: Sorry lad, no offense meant Smile

PS.And when I'm thinking about it... I actually need to loosen up a bit indeed. I'm panicking about torches even before playing a single game against them. lol!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Speckie
Captain
Captain


Posts : 74
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-09-05

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 16:26

Torches can fry your butt, I'd panic too, it's all good ^^
Back to top Go down
View user profile
RationalLemming
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1454
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-11-05
Age : 32
Location : Toowoomba, Qld, Australia

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Ostlanders Ostlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 21:13

Yeah you shouldn't worry too much about your troll. As per the official rules they do not roll for serious injury (although we also play by the same house rule as Von Kurst which forces a roll on the serious injury table if the troll was taken OOA by a fire weapon).

Here is another thought. Is a torch treated as equipment or as a weapon? I think that it is equipment that can be used as a weapon but I'll flesh out both scenarios here.

- If a torch is a weapon then your enemy has use the torch at the expense of using a better weapon as warriors can only carry two close combat weapons each battle. This is a big downside when those enemy warriors are fighting the rest of your warband (-1 to hit with no benefits except against trolls).

- If a torch is equipment that can be used as a weapon then only the enemy heroes will have access to use torches because henchmen cannot carry equipment. This will mean that at most there will be 6 enemy warriors with torches and your troll can safely go after the henchmen.

Regardless of whether you define a torch as a weapon or as equipment these are some other 'hidden' restrictions to using them. I doubt that you'll see too many enemy warriors using torches. Therefore instead of worrying about torches worry about the monster slayer warriors and beware the Kislev Ranger... pale
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://sites.google.com/site/ourhouserules/mordheim
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 7006
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Mon 6 Sep 2010 - 23:54

Dahag wrote:


@VonKurst: Sorry lad, no offense meant Smile

None taken. Sorry for the off hand comment.

Torches breaking. Khemri rules maybe. There you pay 8 gc for the torch forever. We do play a lot of 'house' or campaign rules so things do get a bit muddled.

According to some rules, torches can't be used as weapons. Like I say its important to get the rules used clarified before the burning starts.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mweaver
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1411
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-13
Location : South Texas, U.S.A.

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Tue 7 Sep 2010 - 5:33

I endorse Rational Lemming's comments. They're, well, rational. (And perhaps lemmingly, but I haven't had many conversations with lemmings so I will withhold judgement).

One of the really important functions of all the Big Critters (rat ogres, ogres, trolls, minotaurs, etc.) is to distract attacks from your critical heroes. If enemy warbands are spending time an energy tooling up to attack the troll, then, well, he's serving his purpose!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WarbossKurgan
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 2867
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2007-10-04
Age : 45
Location : Morkchester, UK

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Tue 7 Sep 2010 - 9:02

I think a weakness to fire balances Trolls out actually. Since all other "Big Guys" are just as expensive and actually die VERY often - ask Andy in Flame On, I think he's lost at least two Minotaurs on their first outings!
Shocked

Worry about Trolls being isolated, stupid and not doing anything for a whole game! Worry about them becoming a victim of that nasty Chaos Rite and killing the rest of your warband! Worry about saving up for one when you didn't start with one!

Don't worry about them dying.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.flameon.co.uk
mweaver
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1411
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-13
Location : South Texas, U.S.A.

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Tue 7 Sep 2010 - 18:15

Yeah, my brother (in a campaign I didn't play in) had a troll for his orc warband. Apparently his opponents quickly mastered the art of neutralizing the never-dying nasty troll by scragging the orc boss. He goes down, he effectively takes the troll with him (the troll only has a 1-in12) chance of being functional if he's not benefiting from the captain's leadership). And, of course, orc bosses don't regenerate...

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Charybdis0
Warrior
Warrior


Posts : 19
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-09-05

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Dwarfs Dwarfs
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Wed 8 Sep 2010 - 4:11

When it comes to trolls, I figure fire arrows are a much better way to go. Although you still have to hit and wound, so getting to negating the regen save is only useful if you can reliably do that. Torches are misc equipment as far as the rules seem to say, and unless it states it somewhere I didn't see they aren't so much as 'weapons' as they can be used to set things that are in base contact on fire on a roll (4+ I think? it's late >.>) Although that is very weapon-like I don't see it classifying as one for the purposes of only having 2 melee weapons at a given time.

One instance I can think of that would be a very bad place for a troll to be would be the Horrors of the Underground scenario, as I believe it states that all warband members capable of using equipment are equipped with torches for the time they are there, which I would assume means henchmen as well (as long as they can use *anything* so excluding zombies, nurglings, things that say they cannot use stuff.) And any model using bows gets free fire arrows for that game too.

Also, with the possibility of so many powder kegs showing up (we had a game with almost 15 kegs on the map) those torches get awfully dangerous.

*EDIT* also, some equipment specifically says that henchmen can buy/use them e.g. Winter Furs. I don't remember seeing that about torches, but it's something to think about.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dahag
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 222
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-05-21

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Wed 8 Sep 2010 - 4:43

thank you very much for all those comments. Now I realize that there are a plethora of things to be worried about, not only torches. Just kidding, of course Smile thanks a lot!

mweaver wrote:
Yeah, my brother (in a campaign I didn't play in) had a troll for his orc warband. Apparently his opponents quickly mastered the art of neutralizing the never-dying nasty troll by scragging the orc boss. He goes down, he effectively takes the troll with him (the troll only has a 1-in12) chance of being functional if he's not benefiting from the captain's leadership). And, of course, orc bosses don't regenerate...

they can't indeed. I think also that the orc boss is the "weakest link" regarding keeping up the trolls functionality / survivability.

So it is surely important to keep the captain on his feet.

Thus I guess the two should not be isolated too much from the group, but on the other hand he would have the power to achieve a lot "on his own" (well, together with the orc boss I mean).

Also thought about giving the captain some defensive skills like resilient or hard head. but a captain is not the fastest learner as he starts at 20xp and has other skills he should learn to the benefit of the group as a whole (sprint, da cunning plan, ...). so it will take quite some time to get there...


As I never fielded a large target so far, I wonder what strategies and tactics there are to use the troll to its full potential? as he cannot really climb and walk ladders and walkways and through narrow passages etc. it might be difficult to bring him effectively into combat...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WarbossKurgan
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 2867
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2007-10-04
Age : 45
Location : Morkchester, UK

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Wed 8 Sep 2010 - 6:17

I usually go with "Plan A": Charge! Get the Troll and the Boss into the thick of it were he can thump the enemy rather than get shot by them!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.flameon.co.uk
Darkfury
Captain
Captain


Posts : 70
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-03-09

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Fri 17 Sep 2010 - 12:18



Sorry, semi-necro thread. But where are torches listed/defined? Reason I ask is I play versus a Troll often, and it might be handy to have a torch or two!

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Charybdis0
Warrior
Warrior


Posts : 19
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-09-05

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Dwarfs Dwarfs
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Fri 17 Sep 2010 - 13:33

The Empire in Flames module has the rules for torches. Although as with a lot of things in Mordheim they are a little vague on how they are classified. Our group plays with them as misc. equipment so they don't take up a hand slot unless used as a weapon for that round of combat.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Darkfury
Captain
Captain


Posts : 70
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-03-09

PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Sat 18 Sep 2010 - 13:17


Thank you!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: (Anti-) Troll equipment?   Today at 7:15

Back to top Go down
 
(Anti-) Troll equipment?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» (Anti-) Troll equipment?
» Beastman Minotaur - Equipment to take for him
» Curses! Skaven Hero Equipment list
» Pit fighter dwarf slayer equipment
» Night Goblins and Troll etc.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum :: General Discussion :: Rules and Gameplay-
Jump to: