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 Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!

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qboid
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PostSubject: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Thu 19 Aug 2010 - 12:04

Scribes,Seers and Academics,

Once again i come seeking wisdom!

I have moved up from Goblins to an Orc and Goblin Warband.
A tougher form of anarchy.

The Shaman has the spell Fooled Ya!

When cast , he cannot be charged. Does this mean he still counts for Interception?
Effectively, this would mean he could block enemy movement through a 4 inch gap.

Or is he intangible, and can be moved through as if he is not there?

A gold crown awaits your intellectual response good sirs.
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Thu 19 Aug 2010 - 13:56

I would think that since he is choosing to Intercept then he would have to drop the spell.

Although I do like the idea of him Poofing around a confusing everyone around him.
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Thu 19 Aug 2010 - 15:57

Here's the spell:

"The Shaman disappears in a green mist, confusing his enemies.
No enemy may charge the Shaman during their next turn. If the Shaman is engaged in hand-to-hand combat he may immediately move 4" away."

And here is the rule about interceptions.

"If an unengaged (ie, not in hand-to-hand combat) enemy model lies within 2" of the charge route, that model may choose to intercept the charger if he wishes." (p. 10 of the LRB).

So, the spell description doesn't say he can't charge, or that if he is in melee he has to move away - or that he can't strike or be struck. I would take it literally. He can charge, he can intercept, he can fight in melee. He just cannot himself be charged. Likewise, according to the rules on interceptions, you can still charge another orc model - the shaman can choose to intercept, or not, if he is in range.
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Claus
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 0:40

Nothing to add to explainations given by "mweaver"
Itīs exactly how I would have treated this case.

Regards
Claus
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 4:22

Which then means he can effectively block access through a doorway or other small entrance, by standing in it and nobody being able to charge him.

He could of course be pincushioned with arrows, but there are flaws to every cunning plan.
Smile

Thanks for the answers.

Oh, and you can forget the Gold Crown, Obnog (the warband leader) said he would rather eat Squig dung than pay up.
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 4:49

mweaver wrote:
Here's the spell:

"The Shaman disappears in a green mist, confusing his enemies.
No enemy may charge the Shaman during their next turn. If the Shaman is engaged in hand-to-hand combat he may immediately move 4" away."

And here is the rule about interceptions.

"If an unengaged (ie, not in hand-to-hand combat) enemy model lies within 2" of the charge route, that model may choose to intercept the charger if he wishes." (p. 10 of the LRB).

So, the spell description doesn't say he can't charge, or that if he is in melee he has to move away - or that he can't strike or be struck. I would take it literally. He can charge, he can intercept, he can fight in melee. He just cannot himself be charged. Likewise, according to the rules on interceptions, you can still charge another orc model - the shaman can choose to intercept, or not, if he is in range.

how would you treat the following situation:

Shaman with sucessful Fooled Ya "upon himself" chooses to intercept. As soon as he has sucessfully intercepted, he counts as being in close combat.
Now the spell description stats that he may move 4" away IMMEDIATELY if in cc.

So the orc shaman could theoretically intercept to stop the chargers movement but then beaming 4" away, leaving back a confused attacker standing there without any enemy in btb.

I think it's rather sneaky (overstretching the rules, actually). But according to the wording of the rules, i can find nothing that prohibits it...

note that I rather search for an argument against it, although i'm a little proud of my idea Very Happy


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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 5:52

I would argue that your scenario is not allowed, although as worded it is ambiguous. I think "If the Shaman is engaged in hand-to-hand combat he may immediately move 4" away" means if he is in h.t.h. when he casts the spell.
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Claus
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 6:13

This scenario canīt be the case.

1) Shaman casts the spell....and then he is allowed to immedeately leave a combat.

2) In your situation he decided to intercept and to leave away the confusion caused to others with this spell.
He voluntarily fights....so no need to leave combat !

3) No one is charging the Shaman. The shaman decides to intercept.!

4) In your specific case the spell has been cast -> Shaman decided to intercept --> The option to immedeately leave a combat is no longer valid.


This is how I see your scenario but maybe I need some glasses and see it the wrong way Shocked What a Face affraid

Cheers
Claus
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 6:28


So forgetting intercept for a moment.

If the Shaman stands in a doorway and casts the spell, can models charge other models through the doorway? Would the shaman have to choose to intercept? If so, if he does intercept does he stay in the doorway, or move two inches towards the charging model, which would potentially allow other models to charge through the now vacant doorway. If he chooses not to intercept, can the first (and subsequent?) models charge through the doorway the shaman is 'blocking'?

Can he in fact even be shot at after 'disappearing in green mist'?

Depending on the answers to the above, he could effectively block a strategic doorway with no chance of being charged or shot as long as he kept rolling the fairly low spell diff.
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 10:06

@claus + mweaver:

I also think that my depicted scenario does not really work. One can "feel" that this possibility was not included in the minds of the author(s). Further, the spell says that he can IMMEDIATELY move away, which strongly indicates the time of casting (as you both point out).

@darkfury:

we always play that the interceptor runs into the way of the charger in the most PERPENDICULAR manner possible (i.e. shortest way possible). thus you also get the point where exactly he intercepts the charger.

in your case that would lead to the following results:

A) the shaman intercepts: he jumps a little to the left or right but basically staying in the doorway as there is also the closest distance to the charging route.

B) the shaman does not intercept: the charging model can run past the shaman unhindered (as long as he has enough space to do so) as the spell does not prohibit other models to run past the shaman.

but thats only how we play interception. others may have other methods...
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 12:24

The way the spell is written, it looks like to me he blocks the doorway.

Not sure how often this is likely to come up - I don't have too many ruined buildings with only one narrow entrance!

Still, if you think it is a more-than-hypothetical issue given the scenarios and terrain you are using, you might want to work out some sort of house rule among the players - he cannot block a door, or if he blocks a door anyone who makes a leadership roll can block him, or (easiest) you can charge someone behind him and he either has to intercept or get out of the way, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 13:31


@Dahag: So either way he blocks the doorway, as there won't be room to charge past him in option b) as its a doorway.

@mweaver: Even if its not the only door in, it could force an attacking warband to have to run all the way around a large building for instance. And if he sticks his troll at the other door it just gets worse ;p

And I still don't know if he can be shot at. If he can, that wouldn't be too bad, as we could at least have a chance to clear him out of the way, though we wouldn't be able to move till next turn then.


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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Fri 20 Aug 2010 - 13:34

The spell doesn't say he cannot be shot at. So, he can be shot at.

You can also blast him with spells.
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Sun 22 Aug 2010 - 1:59

@Darkfury: I don't quite agree why a model should not be able to run past him. You were speaking of a 4" wide doorway, if I remember that correctly.

According to the spell description, there is no indication why a model may not run past him (in the case the shaman does not intercept).

Further, the spell description says: "no enemy may CHARGE the shaman".... so his immunity is reduced to being attacked in closecombat.

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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Sun 29 Aug 2010 - 11:56

I got another question about this spell:

does "Fooled Ya" also affect the Shaman himself?

Is there a clarification / errata on this matter? In the corerules / da mob-rules i could not find an explicit wording...
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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Sun 29 Aug 2010 - 12:24

Do you mean the shaman can't charge enemies with the spell active?

If so, i think the Shaman can still elect to charge enemy models, in his next turn, as the spell only lasts through the enemies next turn.

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PostSubject: Re: Orc Shaman Fooled Ya!   Sun 29 Aug 2010 - 15:08

@qboid: sorry, i posted this in the wrong thread. I actually mistook Fooled Ya for Ledz Go. My question was referring to the latter.

sorry for the confusion... and thanks for your answer nevertheless Smile
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