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 Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)

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mweaver
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PostSubject: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 7:27

I am playing a 6-warband campaign with myself (testing some warband builds, and also field-testing a home-grown warband before posting it anywhere), and the necromancer in the undead warband has just acquired the Spell of Awakening. I have never played in a big competitive campaign where anyone has had a necromancer with this spell, and I have been thinking about some house rules and I am interested in everyone's opinions (especially since many of you may have more relevant experience). The rules I am contemplating revolve around conditions where he can use the spell, not the zombies it produces.

First, he rolled the spell before some of the other warbands had checked the status of out-of-action heroes (it is easier for me, when doing the post-game stuff, to take one warband all the way through the process and then move to another warband, rather than do each stage for each warband, then move to the next stage). So I decided, when he rolled it, that he couldn't use it on any dead heroes that game, since the improvements stage comes after the recovery stage - so when they turned up dead, he didn't have it. The rule turned out to be academic, since only a few heroes went OOA in that game, and they all turned up alive. Still I am curious... reasonable rule?

Second, I am thinking about saying he can only use it to zombify one dead hero after each game. The spell was written in the spirit of two-player games, so in most cases there wouldn't be too dead heroes from the one warband. However, there are six warbands in this campaign, and one or more dead heroes has been the case in at least half of the games. At the moment I am in Turn Six of the ambush scenario, and between them the Dark Elves, Free Brotherhood, undead and Beastmen have already lost ten heroes - and the orcs and skaven are just now getting stuck in. So, I'm thinking odds are two are more dead heroes seems likely. Given some of these heroes are pretty danged experienced, they are going to make great zombies. Is limiting him (his name is Nicodčme Verreau) to one recruit per game reasonable?

Third, I am thinking about saying if he goes out of action and recovers, he can't recruit after that game (same as he can't search for shards or rare items). He has just been taken out of action by a rather annoyed ogre named Albrecht, so this rule if implemented is immediately relevant. (Well, I guess it isn't if he winds up dead... which frankly would lead to dancing in the streets, orcs and skaven and dwarves and everyone hugging each other - this crazy little necromancer managed to get the Life Stealer spell off TEN TIMES IN A ROW).


Last edited by mweaver on Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 10:49; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 9:58

Wait a sec here... what spell are you talking about? Making difficulty rolls for Spell of Awakening? If i am not totally off my rocker here, SoA is Automatic, it just needs some conditions to be met for it to auto-succeed.

First, it can only be used AFTER a battle (whole game), and the hero targeted by it must be dead (that is, rolled Dead on the injury chart, not OOA).

I noticed you wrote of house rules, but feel free to elaborate just what those are (difficuly rolls? OOA heroes? its a little... confusing Smile )
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 10:12

In our last campaign i ruled that the spell would work only on characters killed by the undead warband - just like it would be in a normal two player game. Everyone except the undead player thought it fair - and even he stopped grumbling pretty soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 10:58

That is an interesting idea Horatius - hadn't thought of that option.

Opheliate, you are confusing me! I didn't talk about difficulty rolls for the Spell of Awakening - it is indeed automatic. Perhaps you misread the last paragraph, where I referred to the little maniac successfully casting Life Stealer ten times in a row (that's the one where you suck a wound out of a model in range). That's why everybody already hates this little *#&^e)@! And I do know they have to be dead dead (as we call it), not OOA. It's just that with ten heroes already OOA and the scenario far from over, with more OOA heroes coming, I anticipate (particularly given my notoriously extra-sucky serious injury rolls) that there are quite possibly going to be 3+ dead heroes after this scenario. Adding all three to the undead warband will be a huge shift in the power balance of the campaign - too much for one automatic spell, is my thinking. Anyway - sorry if I wasn't clear.
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 21:36

Ah, now I understand!

No worries mate, I read the post over and over, but I know I can be quite thick at times Smile

I gotta say, though, as 10 heroes is quite exrtraordinary, I would totally take advantage of it, as such opportunities doesnt come along that much. Allthough, IF (and only if) I would balance it out, id actually make the spell only able to raise ONE dead hero. That way, you wont get overpowered, but still get a lot of choices when it comes to selecting the new "member" (or "dismember" har har har) of your warband Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 23:20

Finished the game. Out of 36 heroes, 17 were taken out of action (also, 16 henchmen and a hired sword). Yech. Years ago we stopped allowing the Ambush scenario, and now I remember why. If there are three or four warbands, the "ambushed" warband can pretty much always get their heroes off, and are rich. IF there are five or more warbands, the ambushed warband is massacred, and everybody else tends to take horrific casualties. No middle ground.

Three dead heroes: the beastman's centigor, the Free Brotherhood's goblin cabin boy, and the skaven's night runner. I think my rules for the Spell of Awakening are going to be:

(1) Can only be cast on a hero killed by the undead, and

(2) Cannot be cast after a game in which the necromancer was taken out of action.

Thanks for the suggestions!
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Thu 5 Aug 2010 - 14:27

I like the spell just the way it is. The way I see it - if my gaming group decides to do a big multi player game involving my undead army using this spell, the risk they take is me getting some uber-zombies. It doesn't seem to deter anyone...ever. It's the risk you take when participating in that kind of scenario. Also, if anyone decides to stay in the game after losing more than a hero or two, it's their fault for not routing out, not mine. They must suffer the consequences, no matter how severe. Funny thing is, I have some VERY stubborn friends, and they quite often do NOT like voluntarily routing. Not my problem.

I also noticed that when I DID at one point have 3 uber zombies, they were major targets...they might as well have targets on their backs... They didn't usually last long because of their 33% chance of death after going OOA.

I see nothing wrong with this spell IMO. It's how the game is played individually, and how multiplayer games are handled that can determine the power of this spell.
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Thu 5 Aug 2010 - 14:48

Interesting observations, sartori, thanks. I believe I will try it with the above limitations, for now. But if those limitations make the spell seem too useless, then I may relent somewhat.
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Thu 5 Aug 2010 - 22:53

That's cool, I'm of a mind that if everyone agrees on changing something then it should probably get changed. If that works for you guys, then more power to ya and please continue to have fun! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 10:18

Anything that prevents me from making my Uber zombies is a no no in my opinion I find everyone loves to put their guy out of his or her misery once I've made them.



though most don't succeed muahahahar

see the last flame on campaign for details
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Fri 13 Aug 2010 - 11:16

YOU’RE PLAYING WITH 6 WARBANDS, ON THE TABLE, AT THE SAME TIME?! YOU LUCKY STIFF! Or Unstiff.. LOL! The Carnage must be Incredible!



First IMO, I like the spell as it is. With that many bands on the table the likelihood that a lot of Heroes would Die could be good odds. The spell doesn’t list a limit to how many Heroes can be raised after a single battle. Just like if it were one-on-one, if the opponent lost all Heroes, those can be all raised. The spell was rolled at random during warband creation. That’s fair. All players acknowledged the spell and know of its affects. And since each player rolls their injury rolls, DEATH is a possible roll. If “Dead” is rolled the Hero would be removed from the roster anyhow. They have no claim on the body or bodies anyhow. So what does it matter now if you get to raise their dead? I’d bet, if the tables were turned and it was their Necro’s spell, it’d be fair.



I say, “Go for it! Let the Dead Rise!” LOL!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Fri 13 Aug 2010 - 13:21

"YOU’RE PLAYING WITH 6 WARBANDS, ON THE TABLE, AT THE SAME TIME?! YOU LUCKY STIFF!"

Ahhhhh, you may have overlooked the fact that I am running all six warbands. So, I can say with absolute confidence that the player running each warband is in perfect agreement with me on this issue.

The groups I play with shifted,
some years back, to a rule where if you were creating a warband with a spellcaster you could pick a starting spell; subsequent spells have to be rolled randomly (and a warlock could pick only one of his two starting spells). I am using that rule for this group of warbands. The Necromancer started with Life Stealer (which he had incredibly good luck casting - he's far scarier than the vampire). The Spell of Awakening was one of his improvement rolls. The potential for the undead to pick up two or three new heroes after every game is too unbalancing, in my opinion. After three or four games the undead would be the vamp, the necromancer, three dregs, the promoted ghoul, and NINE hero-zombies. Seems pretty unbalanced to me. I don't know that the house rules I am going to implement are the best solution, but after some experience with them I will reconsider. I should be able to play a couple of games this weekend.
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Fri 13 Aug 2010 - 17:09

I do apologize. I thought you meant you had 6 players at the table at the same time. I didn’t expect 6 Warband Solitaire. I thought I only did that, but only with 2 Bands, to test ideas and strategies. I believe I see more from where you’re coming from now.



I’m still on the same side of the issue though. The spell was still random and so is the “Dead” roll. So yes, the Undead could potentially be a Nasty Strong Warband. Some games could have a lot of Heroes Die, and some where none die. It still random. In your case where the Players agree to pick the starting spell, each would most likely pick the most dangerous/strongest one available. If I was playing Undead, yes, I would pick S.o.A.; without hesitation. Mostly, because of its affects, but also, since the spell is done after battle, the Necro could wear armor during game.



If you really want to change the spell’s effectiveness; here are possible some ideas for you to consider, with that many Bands in play:

-Nerco didn’t go OOA for the battle, and/or rolled full recovery, then the spell could be cast. (this would make it so you would more protect the Necro from going OOA) (or)

-SoA is cast on Heroes only killed by the Undead Warband. (or)

-(since the spell was written with 2 bands in mind, and since each band can only have a max 6 Heroes) SoA is limited to a max of 6 Heroes killed per game. (this could prevent getting 12 new Hero Zombie after a single game) (or)

-The spell SoA becomes more difficult to cast as the Necro begins to fatigue with each cast. As each Dead Hero is Awakened the difficultly is +1 on a D6 for each.

Example: 1st Hero= 1+, 2nd Hero= 2+, 3rd Hero= 4+, 4th= 5+, 6th=6+ (this would still have a limit to how many could be raised and would provide a randomness to you rolls) (or)

-Roll for each Hero killed on a D6. On a result of 4+, the Hero would be raised. (Fluff part) an roll of 1-3 on a D6 would meaning the body is to badly damaged to be raised.



Some of these could be combined to create more difficultly to get Hero Zombies.



Just a few ideas..
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PostSubject: Re: Spell of Awakening (Necromancy)   Fri 13 Aug 2010 - 19:17

"If
you really want to change the spell’s effectiveness; here are possible
some ideas for you to consider, with that many Bands in play:


-Nerco
didn’t go OOA for the battle, and/or rolled full recovery, then the
spell could be cast. (this would make it so you would more protect the
Necro from going OOA) (or)


-SoA is cast on Heroes only killed by the Undead Warband."

These first two options are the modifications I am planning on using. The progressive difficulty idea is interesting, though. If I think the two modifications nerf the spell too much, I may experiment with the progressive difficulty spell.
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