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 Chaos Artifacts in the BTB Campaign

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phoenixhawk
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PostSubject: Chaos Artifacts in the BTB Campaign   Mon 19 Jul 2010 - 14:22

Hello,

Our group has a disagreement on what happens when an artifact is dropped and how to proceed. the rles as written read:

"The Chaos Artefacts are protected by the Chaos Gods themselves and cannot be destroyed. If a model with one of these items is taken out of action place a marker. Any model may pick the item up by moving in contact with the marker. If the marker is not taken, the model out of action keeps the artefact and if it dies from its Serious Injuries it is given to the nominated warband leader, who took it from his unlucky comrade’s remains"

One side of our argument is that the artifact always places a marker on the field, period. The other side of the argument is that if the model was in hand to hand combat, the marker is essentially dropped in base contact with the standing warrior, who then takes ownership, ala a shard of wyrdstone.

Can anyone clarify this for us? If the former is true, it seems like a warband could potentially just bottle out of the game to save the artifact, which defies reason and convention. In a wyrdstone hunt, unclaimed wyrdstone shards are claimed by the warband holding the field. Treasure Hunt in classic mordheim is the same way. Unless we've just been playing this wrong all along, which is always possible! It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense (to some of us) that a victorious warband would fail to claim one of the pivotal items of the campaign after they routed their enemies...but that's how it appears to be written. In particular, this could be abused to prevent a Scion of Chaos player from almost EVER getting ahold of all the artifacts needed for ascension.

Can anyone shed some insight on this? Thanks,

- phoenixhawk
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werekin
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos Artifacts in the BTB Campaign   Mon 19 Jul 2010 - 17:07

I think the obvious answer here is the one you have hinted at Phoenixhawk.

If the wielder of a Chaos artefact loses possession of the item, then if his warband routs they will automatically be forfeiting the artefact to the opposing side!

If the wording does not indicate how this handled, I am sure that Christian will be as keen as I am to clear the matter up moving forwards.

Cheers,

Werekin.
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos Artifacts in the BTB Campaign   Tue 20 Jul 2010 - 5:31

phoenixhawk wrote:
if the model was in hand to hand combat, the marker is essentially dropped in base contact with the standing warrior, who then takes ownership, ala a shard of wyrdstone.

When a model with an artefact is taken out of action you replace the model with a marker for the artefact. Regardless of whether the marker is in base contact with an opponent, other models can only pick up the artefact during their movement phase (including the opponent in base contact).

werekin wrote:
If the wielder of a Chaos artefact loses possession of the item, then if his warband routs they will automatically be forfeiting the artefact to the opposing side!

Of course!

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phoenixhawk
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos Artifacts in the BTB Campaign   Tue 20 Jul 2010 - 11:53

Thanks for the clarification on routing and losing the artifact; common sense reinforces what you guys have written here, but the rules as they were written leave it open to other interpretations.

Regarding the second point tho, the artifact not being taken if in base contact with it, I'd just like to respectfully point out a problem I see with what you've said:

Player A charges and attacks Player B (who has the sword). In a stroke of luck, superior skill, epic combat, whatever, Player A manages to take Player B out of action on the turn charged (not unrealistic, particularly with multiple chargers). The artifact falls to the ground next to the unconcious / dead body of the warrior who had it. Player B's turn comes, and while the victorious warrior is bellowing victory, taking a nap, texting his g/f, a new warrior from Player B charges in, grabs the artifact en route, and engages the aforementioned apparently distracted warrior of Player A. Or even worse, a warrior charges him while another warrior swins by, grabs the artifact and retreats with it.

All of a sudden, Player A, who just unseated the artifact from Player B, loses it again before they've even had an opportunity to take possession of it. See the problem I am trying to illustrate?

What are your thoughts?
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Chaos Artifacts in the BTB Campaign   Tue 20 Jul 2010 - 13:36

You cannot combine a charging movement with picking up an artefact. You can pick up an artefact during a normal movement only.

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PostSubject: Re: Chaos Artifacts in the BTB Campaign   Today at 23:11

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