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 Pistols in close combat detail

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Popmouth
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PostSubject: Pistols in close combat detail   Wed 9 Jun 2010 - 15:46

So, I wonder when is a fight considered as "new" for the terms of using the pistol in "the first round of combat"?
I played earlier today and a situation came up:
A youngblood with a pistol had knocked down one of my skaven, I charged him with a new guy in my turn. Does it still count as the same fight, or is it a new fight, and could the pistol be used by the youngblood?
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PostSubject: Re: Pistols in close combat detail   Wed 9 Jun 2010 - 16:16

Oh dear.

Very very touchy subject. It's generally best to go with the reloading rules in this case - being you have to reload in your round before you can shoot again.
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PostSubject: Re: Pistols in close combat detail   Wed 9 Jun 2010 - 16:48

Quick answer: The combat never ended so he may not shoot again. The rules allow for combatants to move away in their turn from KD and Stunned models, but this statement does not preclude said models in base-to-base contact from remaining in combat until this movement occurs. Your charge prevented his yourngblood from leaving combat.

Long-winded answer: In your example, the KD happened in the mercenary's turn after which you charged in your very next turn. The answer can be found in the section "moving from combat" on page 21. Here it says:
Quote :
...if all a modelís close
combat opponents are knocked down or stunned, he
may move away from the combat if you wish...

Since the youngblood did not get a chance to move away, he is most definitely still in combat. Add to this knowledge that fact that he has not had a full turn to reload and the answer reveals itself.

More on pistols: I believe it has been ruled (if not by the Thoumas than by someone equally in the know) that reloading happens in the following shooting phase regardless of what else is occurring, combat, or shooting another ranged weapon not withstanding. (our house rule is you cannot reload while in close combat but nothing in the official rules says otherwise).

This is why a model with a brace of pistols may shoot every turn.
  • Turn 1: fire pistol a
  • Turn 2: fire pistol b while reloading pistol a
  • Turn 3: fire pistol a while reloading pistol b
  • Turn 4+: repeat actions of turns 2 and 3


If a model with a brace is charged after turn 3 it shoots with only pistol b in the first round of combat. From the second round onward, it will use other weapons (some allow for pistols to be used as clubs). Further reloading will occur each shooting phase regardless of what else is going on.

Although, as i said, we do not allow reloading in combat at my house so it will take a turn to reload one of the pistols after the combat ends before the cycle can continue.
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PostSubject: Re: Pistols in close combat detail   Wed 9 Jun 2010 - 19:03

We have always ruled the model has to have one combat phase (your turn or someone else's) without a combat for a combat to be "new". So, the way we play, in the example you gave the pistols will still be unloaded.
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PostSubject: Re: Pistols in close combat detail   Wed 9 Jun 2010 - 23:04

I would agree with the not being able to reload while in close combat, that seems highly un-realistic to me. Wait wait ..hold on ...let me load in my powder...okay I am ready...WTH
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PostSubject: Re: Pistols in close combat detail   Fri 11 Jun 2010 - 9:57

mweaver wrote:
We have always ruled the model has to have one combat phase (your turn or someone else's) without a combat for a combat to be "new". So, the way we play, in the example you gave the pistols will still be unloaded.
THough that doesn't fully cover everything. Say that I have a warrior in CC with a knocked down model and in my turn I decide to charge someone else, say 6" away from the first CC. This must surely be considered as a new CC?
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PostSubject: Re: Pistols in close combat detail   Fri 11 Jun 2010 - 12:02

It covers everything if you play that the prepare shot rule trumps the may fire in hand-to-hand rule. We play that if you enter combat with an empty pistol its empty. You can play differently. Or perhaps a rules mod could get involved and give us a ruling?
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PostSubject: Re: Pistols in close combat detail   Fri 11 Jun 2010 - 15:41

The answer that seemed most logical to me is if the character is unengaged in the shooting phase they may reload.
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PostSubject: Re: Pistols in close combat detail   Today at 1:16

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