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 Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis

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REminenz
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PostSubject: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Sun 23 May 2010 - 16:39

Hi there!

I would like to get your opinions on how strong the different weapon choices in mordheim are. By strong I mean how powerfull a weapon is in relation to its gold cost.

My goal later on is to develop some weapon specific ciritcal hit effects to make all weapons an (almost) equally efficient choice in order to grant a more diverse gaming experience. Ciritcal hit effects define the effect a weapon causes when a 6 was rolled to wound. Armour save are allowed unless stated otherwise in the effect.

Soo.. you can rate from one star * to five stars *****.
One star means that the weapon is heavily underpowered and needs some more buffs than unly a good ciritcal hit effect.
Five stars mean that the weapon is so good that it will probably need more than just a weak ciritcal hit effect.
Two to four stars indicate how good the critical hit effect should be - the less stars, the better the effect will be to balance things out.

Here is the list of the core rule book weapons:

  • Fist ***
  • Dagger ***
  • Hammer, staff, mace or club ****
  • Axe **
  • Sword ***
  • Flail ***
  • Morning star ***
  • Halberd ***
  • Spear *
  • Lance ?
  • Double-handed weapon ***
  • Short bow ***
  • Bow ***
  • Long bow ***
  • Elf bow ***
  • Crossbow ***
  • Sling *****
  • Throwing star/knife ***
  • Repeater crossbow ?
  • Crossbow pistol ***
  • Pistol ***
  • Duelling pistol ****
  • Blunderbuss *****
  • Handgun *
  • Hochland Long Rifle *


Spears would recieve +1 initiative in the first round and a good critical effect
Slings grant +1AS to the target and a mediocre crit effect
Blunderbuss wont be able to cause critical hits
Handgund rolls 2 dice for injury and average crit effect
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SiliconSicilian
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Mon 24 May 2010 - 7:56

You are really giving way too much credit to a couple items on this list. Sling should be no more than *** as it has limited range and -1 to hit when firing 2 shots plus it has no access to skill improvement.

Also, Blunderbuss should probably be a 1 or 2, IMO. Remember that it is 1 shot and is affected by terrain. In Mordheim, there is lots of terrain. I have never seen a blunderbuss unbalance a game.

There are some others that I don't really agree with and my only advice would be to roll a lot more dice.
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Mon 24 May 2010 - 8:24

No offense, but I reject the premise that you can make the weapons different and still balance them in a game.
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Rudeboy
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Mon 24 May 2010 - 10:59

I think you are a little low on the spear, arming a couple of henchmen with them has saved me from some horrible charges.

If I were to balance them I would use them like we do in our house rules that you can always use the spear and your shield. So you are more like the Spartans in "300".
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Mon 24 May 2010 - 12:15

mweaver wrote:
No offense, but I reject the premise that you can make the weapons different and still balance them in a game.

Totally agree here.
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Mon 24 May 2010 - 15:26

Rudeboy, I think the official revision for the spear does specify that, while it is a two-handed weapon, it can be used with a shield. So, no need for a house rule.
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Mon 24 May 2010 - 16:59

mweaver wrote:
No offense, but I reject the premise that you can make the weapons different and still balance them in a game.
I agree, though I guess the main reasons for house ruling and such is not to make all weapons fair, but to avoid one, or a very few styles being the only sensible choice (if you wish to win).
All weapons should at least in theory be worth their gold in some situation
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Mon 24 May 2010 - 17:38

We usually have a bit of everything in play, except pretty much no one uses a short bow if they can take better. But in terms of melee weapons swords, axes and maces/clubs/etc. are all in wide use. Axes and clubs dominate early on, but that is largely a function of their cost, not their special abilities - shifting to swords is common when money flows in. Spears have largely disappeared given the last rules revision - although someone with higher-than-average initiative will still take them.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Tue 25 May 2010 - 12:48

I'm curious. The grass is always greener, but I have never seen a warband that can not take slings take Weapons Master to gain access to slings. I have often seen a skaven with a crossbow, long rifle or a blunderbuss.

So for those with sling envy--do you take slings with your heroes at the first opportunity with your Rieklanders or Shadow Elves? Dwarfs?

I have this picture in my head of all of you using only 2 clubs and slings for your heroes.
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Tue 25 May 2010 - 16:37

Von Kurst, that is very Watson-ish of you. I have not seen one person keep a sling that they loot from a captured Skaven. Most players I know think it is junk, myself included. When money starts to roll in, my Skaven get rid of clubs and slings in favour of the multitude of better choices as mweaver has suggested.
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kroxigor01
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Thu 27 May 2010 - 23:28

Slings aren't good when on a handful of heroes, they are good when used to cheaply reach a critical mass of firepower. Slings are only good when everyone in the warband can take them, then they are overpowered.
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Mon 31 May 2010 - 4:51

kroxigor01 wrote:
Slings are only good when everyone in the warband can take them, then they are overpowered.
Exactly, that is the point of "sling envy". One sling in warband is crap. 12 henchmen performing constant sling spam is completely different question.
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Mon 31 May 2010 - 6:10

If you have proper amounts of terrain then they can't use even half of those slings at once.
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PostSubject: Re: Vote: Weapon Cost-Benefit Analysis   Today at 14:50

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