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 Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)

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Popmouth
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PostSubject: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Mon 10 May 2010 - 0:49

Now, for me it feels slightly weird that the spear can operate as well in one hand (w. shield) as with two hands (without shield).
I'm think of a slight boost for the spear if used sans bouclier.
It could be something like, -1 to enemy AS, +1 to injury, +1S when charged.
any ideas?
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Mon 10 May 2010 - 3:00

Popmouth wrote:
Now, for me it feels slightly weird that the spear can operate as well in one hand (w. shield) as with two hands (without shield).
I'm think of a slight boost for the spear if used sans bouclier.
It could be something like, -1 to enemy AS, +1 to injury, +1S when charged.
any ideas?

So, you're at again, Popmouth! I like the way you think, but isn't it better if the boost is simpler? Or do you mean that one of the three suggestions should be used? In the latter case I would vouch for +1 to Injury roll, or +1S when charged. Those two sound both reasonable, and are good, but not too good, reasons to actually have a model with a 2H-spear.
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Mon 10 May 2010 - 5:19

Really good idea! We already accepted this wielding option for staff, as specified in rules for Nicodemus. Spear seems pretty the same to me.
As we buffed armor and shields and raised their importance, I like the -1 AS version.
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Mon 10 May 2010 - 7:13

Well, one of the different of course, otherwise it would be quite the nasty weapon for 5gc ^
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Mon 10 May 2010 - 10:15

Well, giving it even more bonuses when being charged will really make it a nightmare for any close cobat chargers (Dire wolves, Possessed, Vampires etc).
Personally, I prefer to keep it simple and not bother to change anything. I mean, you can wield normal handweapons with two hands as well.

Though if I must pick one, I'd go with +1 S on the first turn of being charged, whereafter the bonus dissapears.
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Tue 11 May 2010 - 8:11

True, however I thought mainly that there is quite a number of models who are wielding it with two hands, so I thought this should be represented. Besides that it would be nice to have a real heavy defensive weapon, which could encourage even more strategic situations.
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Tue 11 May 2010 - 8:26

I see what you are getting at. I use to make the models wear the shields on the back if both hands are holding the spear. Heroes are often converted instead, as they should look a little more fearsome. Take a look at my old tilean warband heroes: http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/painting-and-modelling-f3/tilean-mercenaries-t3084-25.htm?highlight=tilean

Also, i think the First Strike aspect of teh spear is really intimidating to begin with (I lost a Dire Wolf to a youngblood thanks to the spear... twice!)

Though I am all for tweaking the game, but if the spear is tweaked, maybe one should add some general bonus for wielding all one handed weapons with two hands (except the dagger perhaps...). Like "I stuff away my sheld to take a two hand grip on my hatchet, gaining a +1 to any critical hit rolls". That would then go for the spear as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Tue 11 May 2010 - 8:30

Yeah, I was thinking about that as well, this would slightly encourage people to use other set-ups than just DW or Hand Weapon & Shield. Though I don't know what other effects such a benefit could have...
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Tue 11 May 2010 - 9:23

Why dont you make a whole new thread about it, so everyone else can discuss it as well, and let the mods have their thread back Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Wed 12 May 2010 - 0:51

Well why don't you Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Wed 12 May 2010 - 3:17

i had an idea for spears representig u can stick the back on the ground (or wall or what ever), to use urenemys strength against him.

If a modell wields a spear with both hands being charged it may choose to use the attachers strength (including all bonuses apply to that attack) for his first attack in this close combat phase.

While this bonus apply not that often it feels very fluffy to me, ans especialy supports spears on weak fighters like youngbloods or goblins.
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Wed 12 May 2010 - 6:14

Yeah, that's a good idea, though I would perhaps only give the strenght-swap-bonus, not the bonus for the attack
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Wed 12 May 2010 - 8:15

How about the distance the enemy that the enemy charges in inches? That would represent the speed at which he would presumable "launch" himself on the spear. That way, some would really think twice before charging a spearwielding warrior. Or at least +1S for every inch over 4"?
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Fri 14 May 2010 - 8:53

Considering further, I would prefer if only the spear had this extra rule: many seem to see it as overpriced, and giving it say a +1S if charged would make it more attractive.
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Fri 14 May 2010 - 13:32

Actually the spear in battle was always intended to be used in conjunction with a shield to create a solid and movable wall behind which archers could take safe haven from calvary. The spear is technically a defensive weapon...

As for gaming, I can see you maybe wanting a small bonus to it, and someone charging with a spear would do good shock/instant damage IF it hits. But it is quite easy to counterattack due to the somewhat ungainly nature. If you want to go accurate I think a small bonus to the charge/damage somehow is appropriate for the first round of combat, but if you stay locked in battle then the bonus is lost.
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PostSubject: Re: Spears without shield (wielded w. two-hands)   Today at 8:26

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