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 Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?

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5thelmt
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PostSubject: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Fri 30 Apr 2010 - 13:48

Hello everyone,

i would like to know your opinion about buying henchmen without equiping them: is it legal or not?

To be frank i love this list, but after having played with a lot of others i can't help to think they have been wasted more than nerfed between this list and the TC 14 one

only 4 heroes instead of 6, no academic skills anymore, obligation to buy henchmen at 50 gc for the LESS expensive ones instead of being able to choose equipement freely: all theese things made them really hard to play, not to say unviable IMHO

I try to make different list that's why i wanted to know if i was allowed to hire men without buying them equipement, onsidering they have 1 dagger


Thanks to all of you
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Fri 30 Apr 2010 - 13:58

I much prefer the limitations of the second (TC 21) incarnation to the absolute beast that was the original list. Six starting heroes is powerful even when it's not combined with a free pit fighter skill for everyone in the warband and a load of equipment options.

And as far as I can tell, you need not equip anyone. The list says they "may" select equipment from the equipment lists and nowhere does it say they must - not even in the blurb about fighting styles and equipment.

So, yes, it's totally fine to hire dagger-only warriors.
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Fri 30 Apr 2010 - 19:11

I quote:

Weapons & Armour
Unlike other warbands that may chose which
weapons and armour to equip their warriors
with, Pit Fighters have to chose a specific
fighting style which dictates their weapons and

armour configuration[size=9].[/size]

Notice it says "Pit fighters HAVE to chose a specific fighting style"

I just finished a campaign with Pit Fighters and although it makes the henchmen expensive it is not out of line. Heck, a std. human, usually 25gc with a 25gc crossbow is a lot too but who shys away from that?
Just move from building to building and make everyone come inside to fight you.
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5thelmt
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Sat 1 May 2010 - 3:22

The sentence you quoted means for me that you do not have the choice of your weapon configuration, but doesn't mean that you have to buy this configuration: the doubt is here for me because of the "may choose" in henchmen/heroes equipement description, and the fact that you can buy henchmen without equipement in other bands. The difference here is that the equipement have to be bough in a lot :/

Anyway this list is full of things unclear like this:
For instance the "arms master" skill: you are not supposed to be able to use it because you cannot choose your weapons and there is no fighting style with a "difficult to use" one handed weapon. So this skill is only useable with weapons training

The same for witch elf style with spear and net with is ridiculus compared to skink style with trident and net for the same price, or 2Xswords wich is useless

I really love this list theme, but believe me i must not be smart enough to play it well in front of experienced players playing possessed, sisters of sigmar or orcs: they all are better in terms of number, economy, shooting, magic etc and every loss you have in a campagn is very difficult to replace when you have 4 heroes (when none has been taken OOA) and no economic bonus, and have to buy at least a 50gc henchmen

Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Sat 1 May 2010 - 6:03

While I would like to say that the rule is steadfast that all pit fighters must buy a style, the pdf is not entirely well-written. To me, it seems to suggest that the henchmen must each buy a fighting style but they may differ from others in the same group. However, the argument could be made that it is an option which may be taken later. I think that 5thelmt has a valid point. One of our group is playing Pit Fighters so I will get his take on this today and report back.
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CygnusMaximus
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Sat 1 May 2010 - 9:35

I read it the same way as 5themt - it says you must equip warriors with "fighting styles" rather than giving them individual items. If you actually had to give them each a style, it would say that the warrior must purchase a fighting style rather than saying they "may" select equipment. (In my mind "may" means that you don't have to.)
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Sat 1 May 2010 - 18:30

Even the TC21 list is beast IMO. I've seen it run in 2 diff campaigns each with a half dozen players, and it was dominant. It's a warband whose members consist of humans as a majority. I know they're supposed to be extraordinarily trained fighting machines, but I think they went a little overboard. They do many things no other warband can even attempt and without much effort (even warbands filled with monsters and mutants).
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5thelmt
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Sun 2 May 2010 - 2:25

sartori wrote:
Even the TC21 list is beast IMO. I've seen it run in 2 diff campaigns each with a half dozen players, and it was dominant. It's a warband whose members consist of humans as a majority. I know they're supposed to be extraordinarily trained fighting machines, but I think they went a little overboard. They do many things no other warband can even attempt and without much effort (even warbands filled with monsters and mutants).

I wonder how, with a maximum of 4 heroes if no one has been taken OOA (and they all are close combat heroes so...) and 3-4 dices maximum at endgame they can perform well in a campaign, when you need 50 gc to buy one henchman.

It is funny because in my gaming groups it is all the contrary, every loss in start of the campagn is a pain to replace, and they struggle just to maintain while other bands develop themselves with more powerfull shooting attacks, heroes, economy etc

I suppose it must depends on how games and campaigns occurs, but in my surroudings they have no chance in front of a lot of other bands, not to mention sisters wich are the worst ennemy for them (caanot even use their parries most of the time)

Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Sun 2 May 2010 - 9:24

Just some ideas I use:
If you must move, go from building to building and hide a lot.
Stay close to each other for HTH support.
Get set inside your locatons early, then...
Make the shooters come to you.
Use as many pursuers as you can for that failed charge thing (and javelin throwing!).
Hire a tillean marksman.
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Sun 2 May 2010 - 9:30

P.S.
PLEASE do NOT start arguing about this on-line!!!
At least not on this thread!

Some call it power gameing, others not...just plain common sense.

Put all henchmen in their own 1-man groups until you get your 6 heroes.
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Sun 2 May 2010 - 10:21

Some good strategy. I don't believe it is power gaming if you have less than 8 models to start, usually.
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Mon 3 May 2010 - 16:57

honestly, Hire a Tilean should be first priority for all HtH warbands.
They're worth the gold so many times over. The one I take for my Pirates has saved my ass so many times.
And he was basically invaluable to my Gunnery School, which despite the name is actually mostly a HtH warband.

They really are second only to ogres in utility and value.
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Mon 3 May 2010 - 18:00

I would say that an Arabian Merchant is a must have for any warband able to hire it. He pays for himself every game, almost.
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PostSubject: Re: Pit Fighters TC 21: obligation to equip?   Today at 4:35

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