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 Leader Death in BTB

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Rudeboy
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PostSubject: Leader Death in BTB   Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 6:44

I had a question about the leader of a warband dieing. From the core book it looks like the hero with the highest leadership would take his or her place and you would never be able to buy a new leader. If your leader was a magic user then you would pass on the spell casting ability to the new leader. The exception would be a Vampire. In BTB with the Silent Threat Objective that means you could cripple certain warbands that way.

Has anyone else had an issue with leader deaths and if anyone had any good house rules?
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 7:13

I think it was errata'ed that all prayer/spell-casters can be re-bought (Sisters, Vampire, Liche) so there's no big difference between those and "normal" warbands. Once you achieved the Assassination I am sure your decision which opposing leader to target with the effect will depend on way more factors than whether he/she can cast or not (such as their object progress, artefacts, overall strength of that model, special skills, personal grudge, ...).

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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 19:17

We play with the house rule that any warband leader may be re-bought.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 20:21

cianty wrote:
I think it was errata'ed that all prayer/spell-casters can be re-bought (Sisters, Vampire, Liche) so there's no big difference between those and "normal" warbands. Once you achieved the Assassination I am sure your decision which opposing leader to target with the effect will depend on way more factors than whether he/she can cast or not (such as their object progress, artefacts, overall strength of that model, special skills, personal grudge, ...).

Which FAQ would that be?
No big difference? A normal warband's leader is gone, period. Seems like a difference.
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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Wed 28 Apr 2010 - 2:12

Von Kurst wrote:
Which FAQ would that be?

I really don't know. Maybe my mind just made it up. I'd have to look it up (don't even know where to start).

Von Kurst wrote:
No big difference? A normal warband's leader is gone, period. Seems like a difference.

Well, spell-casting is a special rule making the model useful in some way. I don't think spell-casters are generally more useful than other models (in fact, most of the time they are even worse, depending on their spells). A very advanced Orc leader is no less scary than some spell-casting leader. Therefore I don't think it's that big a deal. Especially when you can rebuy the caster so you don't lose access to casting. I am thinking very abstract here...

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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Wed 28 Apr 2010 - 6:13

The House Rule I was thinking was that you could always repurchase your Leader slot, but that you didn't have to make him your leader.

So for example if your leader dies and one of you other heroes takes over you could repurchase a hero that has all the same stats as a beginning leader for your warband, but that at that point you could choose to keep the hero that stepped-up as you leader. Then if the hero that became your leader died then the hero with the leader stats that you purchased would step-up and take his spot.

That way you wouldn't lose the option to purchase what in most warbands is the best hero stat wise, but if you are late into the champagne then you are not stuck with a green character as your leader.
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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Wed 28 Apr 2010 - 9:27

Most casters are not leaders to begin with so most warbands can always buy them, anyway. I think keeping to what is set up in the main rules is best with regards to "leader" re-buying. But, Mordheim is a system that is very lenient with regards to how you run your campaigns. If everyone has access to leader re-buys, then everyone knows up front the pros and cons.

I will say this, though... If I were in a campaign where I knew that my leader could be re-bought, I guarantee that I would play him a lot more recklessly than otherwise if he was a fighting leader. Sure, I would try to protect him to some extent but he would be going full-tilt every game to rapidly advance and only start to slow down when he was capped. When Mordheim first came out, I was in a few different leagues and one of them was a weekly tournament-style event where every choice in your warband was always available. Warbands with great fighters as leaders were almost always the weekly winners. Game one, one or two of your heroes go kamikazi with some henchmen screening incoming fire. If they go down, you still have 3 heroes at the back playing conservatively to gain you enough income to buy-back a fallen hero. If you get a bad injury result, retire and rehire. Over the coarse of 6 games, it was not uncommon for a few heroes to have accumulated an additional 20-30 experience through reckless play. Be very careful when allowing re-buys. It is like using a trainer in an RTS game.
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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Wed 28 Apr 2010 - 9:41

Well, re-buys become more and more useless the longer the campaign goes on. Their initial 20 XP are never justified (compared to their profile and skills) and thus neither is their price. Every other Hero and more so the Henchmen will become far suprior as they advance. So the long term plan is to avoid any of the initial Heroes anyways (unless they have very unique special rules - such as spell-casting) and replacing them with LGTs.

It also strongly depends on the warband you are playing. Orcs e.g. can't afford to lose any of their 4 starting Heroes. I think there are different things to factor in, but I really don't feel that the option to re-buy a Leader is anywhere near unfair/unbalanced. It seems like a fluff thing mostly.

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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Thu 29 Apr 2010 - 7:08

Rudeboy wrote:
... if you are late into the champagne...

I love being late into the champagne Razz

But seriously, i like your idea to re buy without the stipulation that they be the leader if one so wishes. In some warbands, mercenaries for example, it is best to have a promoted henchman fill the spot, but some leaders are invaluable for their special abilities.
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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Fri 30 Apr 2010 - 2:51

I accidently found what I was referring to (Mordheim Errata):

Page 117, Death of a Leader
Add the following paragraph at the end of this section:

“If the leader of a Sisters of Sigmar, Possessed or Carnival of Chaos warband dies then
their successor will be entitled to learn to use magic in their stead. The new leader may
choose a prayer/spell from the appropriate list, instead of rolling on the Advance table,
the first time they are eligible for an advance. After this they are considered to be a
wizard/use prayers as appropriate for their warband and use the advance table as normal.”

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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Fri 30 Apr 2010 - 14:17

I guess my reaction then is do you recommend that players play with an option to re-buy the leader when playing BTB?
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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Sun 2 May 2010 - 6:43

Von Kurst wrote:
I guess my reaction then is do you recommend that players play with an option to re-buy the leader when playing BTB?

Well, my opinion is that this is not a question specific to BTB and it shouldn't be answered differently for BTB than for any other Mordheim setting.

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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Sun 2 May 2010 - 8:25

cianty wrote:
Von Kurst wrote:
I guess my reaction then is do you recommend that players play with an option to re-buy the leader when playing BTB?

Well, my opinion is that this is not a question specific to BTB and it shouldn't be answered differently for BTB than for any other Mordheim setting.

I agree... And it is something that takes a bit of discussion for all parties involved. It is not something that I would introduce mid-campaign. If all members agree, then roll with it and see how it goes. Post your experiences so others will know if it is too strong or just another way to play.
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PostSubject: Re: Leader Death in BTB   Sun 2 May 2010 - 14:16

Absolutely.

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