HomeFAQSearchRegisterUsergroupsBlogLog inGolden Tom 2014 Thread!

Share | 
 

 Another Axe Fix

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Thu 22 Apr 2010 - 14:23

ah, you could also do it the other way around, very balanced Very Happy though far less fluffy Sad

Slay: Treat Injury Rolls of '4' as out of action. No effect vs. henchmen. (Does not stack with Strike to Injure)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
matt
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 1053
Trading Reputation : 4
Join date : 2007-11-10
Age : 23
Location : Castricum, The netherlands

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marauders (BTB) Marauders (BTB)
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Thu 22 Apr 2010 - 23:41

or you can keep the price of a club on 3gc, and just use this for the axe by Lord 0:

Cutting Impact:Axes are heavy, unbalanced weapons that - when they
hit - will hit hard and bite deep.
Knocked down results may be re-rolled.
Pros: Operates off to the side of other injury rules, so can be quickly and
consistently applied.
Cons: Sometimes adds an extra roll, extending game-play

_________________
..and by a roll of the dice you go under..
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mweaver
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1411
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-13
Location : South Texas, U.S.A.

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 5:42

To be honest, I wasn't aware that axes needed fixing. WIth us, its clubs/maces/etc/ that tend to be underused - I think probably because we tend to forget their special rule fairly consistently.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
hero
Elder
Elder


Posts : 310
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-05

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 19:07

Get rid of the armor reduction from attack strength and see if people buy axes then Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Popmouth
Ancient
Ancient


Posts : 479
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-12-10
Age : 29
Location : Gothemburg, Sweden

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Kislevites Kislevites
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Sat 24 Apr 2010 - 2:29

This makes the DHW quite weak though

What you could do however, is remove Strength penelty, and add -2AS to DHW and Flails... or at least -1AS though this makes a lot of extra rules.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Sat 24 Apr 2010 - 5:16

im convinced that axes need something that is NOT AP
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
mweaver
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1411
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-13
Location : South Texas, U.S.A.

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Sat 24 Apr 2010 - 7:28

Why?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 4:34

because AP only works some of the time and even when it works it is seldomly better than concussion

yes, OOA on 4+ vs. non-animal, non-undead henchmen is much better some of the time, but also has no effect some of the time

my current proposal for setup:

club 5gc

concussion
does not work with strike to inure

Sword 7gc
+1 I to strike order (or parry if you prefer)
stacks with Strike to injure

Axe 7gc
treat injury rolls of 4 as OOA
no effect vs. heroes, animals or undead
does not stack with strike to inure
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
hero
Elder
Elder


Posts : 310
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-05

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 10:59

@Popmouth: Yes, I would want to make appropriate changes to other weapons. Basically any melee weapon that gives a strength bonus ought to have an armor penalty, and shooting weapons with four strength or more need to get them as well. Everybody is familiar with armor penalties and I think it's easy to remember which weapons have them, so it's pretty easy to adopt.

Anyway I agree with asp in that I would prefer axes to have a less situational bonus.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
REminenz
Champion
Champion


Posts : 47
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-03-20
Location : Vienna, Austria

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Dwarfs Dwarfs
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 11:31

I have to (partly) disagree here.

It is somewhat essential to have a relatively cheap (one-handed) option to go for armour negation in my opinion. Under the assumption that armour is worth buying of course..


I have the feeling that most of these rules go a little bit too far. It's fine if you want to create a mordheim-like game (ohhh I remember a rather long debate on this matter a while ago which ended in vain - so let's not go too deeply into that), but I prefer simple, small adjustments to make mordheim a little more diverse.

Meanwhile I really like Von Kurst's way of doing things which is (in my view) converting historic facts into rules and tweak them a little bit to make them work.. It's okay if it is a little bit unbalanced.. Nobody complains about the rather useless +1 initiative upgrade compared to +1A.. okay, bad expample, but the basic rules are very good as they are imo - it just needs a litte bump in armour effectiveness and a little damper on dual wielding. The rest is cosmetics.

In my eyes, your last rule suggestion with 5, 7, 7 gc cost have too many conditions and don't really reflect what you expect from the weapons..


Meh.. it's hard to put my thoughts in english sentences Sad
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 14:59

Quote :
It is somewhat essential to have a relatively cheap (one-handed) option
to go for armour negation in my opinion. Under the assumption that
armour is worth buying of course..

not if great weapons have AP -2 then it acutally reinforces the rock paper scissors split

Quote :
I prefer simple, small adjustments to make mordheim a little more
diverse.

meh, one cannot argue over the premise for re-writes de gustibus non disputandum est or... whatever

Quote :
Meanwhile I really like Von Kurst's way of doing things which is (in my
view) converting historic facts into rules and tweak them a little bit
to make them work..

yearh we differ. i think that sort of in person thinking leads to a fragmented and often imbalanced game

Quote :
It's okay if it is a little bit unbalanced..

balance is one thing.

making sure all weapons see play is another

Quote :
bad expample,

yearh

Quote :
but the basic rules are very good as they are imo

you cant be serious

but i think you are - i dont want to go into that again either
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Duce
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 800
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-06-11
Age : 34
Location : N.Ireland

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Reiklanders Reiklanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 8:22

Asp,

No offence and i might be wrong but your tone came off as a little you didnt consider the other person's view like your own and dismissed it as inferior.

While we all consider our own views the best we can't just 'meh' off the others.

If you don't want to go into things then there is no need to mention them Smile

giving suggestiosn on something does mean listening to others ideas and all working together in a common cause to make the bestest (Yes I said bestest) outcome form the workings.

Personally I'd love the axe to have benefits on all armour and do something extra sore if they dont. meaning the better armour you have the less the slicing motion of it will effect you meaning a reason to buy armour.

I also want a husky. but since I cant have one I have to have a husky teddy... see what i'm getting at?

love Duce
x

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lord 0
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 890
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Friendship, New York

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 9:13

Axe
Axes are heavy, unbalanced weapons
that - when they
hit - will hit hard and bite deep, especially
unprotected flesh.

Armour Piercing: You all know what this does.
Cutting Impact:If the target is unarmoured (shields, bucklers, and helms don't count) axe hits gain +1 to wound.

or

Axe
Axes are heavy, unbalanced weapons
that - when they
hit - will hit hard and bite deep, especially
unprotected flesh.

Armour Piercing: You all know what this does.
Cutting Impact:If the target is unarmoured
(shields, bucklers, and helms don't count) axe hits gain +S.

or

Axe
Axes are heavy, unbalanced weapons
that - when they
hit - will hit hard and bite deep, especially
unprotected flesh.


Armour Piercing: You all know what this does.

Cutting Impact:If the target is unarmoured
(shields, bucklers, and helms don't count) axe hits gain +1 on the Injury roll.


or

Axe
Axes are heavy, unbalanced weapons
that - when they
hit - will hit hard and bite deep, especially
unprotected flesh.


Armour Piercing: You all know what this does.

Cutting Impact:If the target is unarmoured
(shields, bucklers, and helms don't count) axe hits gain any one of the options already discussed.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lord 0
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 890
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-02-13
Location : Friendship, New York

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 9:14

Hmmm, now that I think about it I might give this to swords and daggers too. I will have to think about the implications...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 9:15

Quote :
Cutting Impact:If the target is unarmoured
(shields,
bucklers, and helms don't count) axe hits gain +1 on the Injury roll.

liking this


*thinking*




duce, dont understand your post.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 9:25

we discussed it some time ago for coreheim

concluded it was too powerful vs. animals and zombies
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
mweaver
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1411
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-13
Location : South Texas, U.S.A.

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 21:08

"because AP only works some of the time and even when it works it is seldomly better than concussion"

Well, swords' parry ability only works some of the time, too...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 18:18

true, i think sword is awkwardly priced in vanilla but meh

no other axe fixes?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Reclaimer
Youngblood
Youngblood


Posts : 13
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-03-25
Location : Washington, DC

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Witch Hunters
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Wed 28 Apr 2010 - 11:35

What about +1 to injury against unarmored targets except animals and zombies?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CygnusMaximus
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 230
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-07-15
Location : Utah, USA

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Averlanders Averlanders
Achievements earned:

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Wed 28 Apr 2010 - 11:54

I'm still a fan of having axes get stuck.

"Armour Piercing, +1 on injury rolls - if you roll a natural '6' on the injury table for a wound caused by an axe, the axe has embedded itself in the enemy's body and the attacker counts as being knocked down as he struggles to pull the axe free."

Gives an upside AND a downside so you no longer have to make a distinction between who it affects to keep its power-level in check.

Might be a little TOO much, but axes do get stuck from time to time.

If you really like convoluted rules, you could give the option to abandon the axe - but that really doesn't seem to be Asp's style.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Thu 29 Apr 2010 - 18:36

Quote :
What about +1 to injury against unarmored targets except animals
and zombies?

body armour is too expensive for that Sad

Quote :
but that really doesn't seem to be Asp's style.

indeed i want a simple, easy fix. hard to come by i see Sad
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Gadir



Posts : 1
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-05-02

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Sun 2 May 2010 - 2:32

What about
giving axes the ability to ignore the effect of helmets?


In ourgaming group no one uses armour but everybody has got a helmet
and I think ignoring the 4+ save is well worth 5gc.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Ultra-Mega Bob
Veteran
Veteran


Posts : 104
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-03-07
Age : 31
Location : Bath, England

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Witch Hunters
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Sun 16 May 2010 - 16:04

It seems strange that axes are so focussed against Armour svaes when Armour is so rarely used in Mordheim; even when Armour is prevalent I'd rather us DHW's or Flails/ lances against them personally.

I don't think axes should ignore helmets as it comes off very strangely. I like the optional 'getting stuck in flesh' thing. Personally I've never minded vanilla axes; yes maces are a few crowns cheaper, and have a more useful ability, but axes have a more damaging critical table, which for 2 GC seems like a fair trade. It's why most of my hencemen get axes when we don't have armour in our campaigns; maces would be nice, but the extra stun option on maces is just as situational as a crit. with an axe (I'm sure someone good at Maths will prove me wrong...) but the crit. is more likely to do the damage that gets you +1 exp. in my opinion.

I always thought it should have been the Blackpowder weapons that got changed, but that's just my two cents
Back to top Go down
View user profile
HornedRat
Elder
Elder


Posts : 365
Trading Reputation : 1
Join date : 2008-12-19
Age : 44
Location : Culver City, California

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Skaven Skaven
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Wed 19 May 2010 - 17:26

I sort of like the idea of every weapon having a counter.

For example with clubs that stuns on a 2+, you get a helmet to avoid stun on a 4+.

With an axe you get ooa 4+, you get a ??? to avoid

Just a thought
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.pbase.com/therat
Rudeboy
Elder
Elder


Posts : 360
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-01
Age : 37

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Restless Dead (BTB) Restless Dead (BTB)
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Fri 21 May 2010 - 12:44

What about Ax 3 GP and Clubs 5 GP.

Since the Club advantage comes-up more often.

Joke = on

Also I think and Ax should do more damage to the Undead, as long as you say, "It's a trick, get an Ax." before you roll. (Ash from Army of Darkness)

Joke = off
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Another Axe Fix   Today at 2:42

Back to top Go down
 
Another Axe Fix
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum :: General Discussion :: Rules and Gameplay-
Jump to: