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 Ultimate orc hero combos?

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Narcissus
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PostSubject: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 24 Mar 2010 - 14:09

HI everyone, I am starting to build a pirate orc warband! My question is, what do you see as the best starting, advancing, and late game builds for orc heroes? What is the optimal hero build. I am not concerned with power gaming so much as coming up with effective roles for my heroes.

My thoughts:
Orc leader-he is an orc, lets make him kill things. Sword, helmet, axe to start. Give him fighting and speed upgrades so he can bash 'eads. Buy him protective items like a lucky charm and light armor when available. Some duelling pistols would be nice eventually (would have to take the weapons master skill). Can he carry 2 pistols and 1 hand weapons and use 1 weapon and 1 pistol in combat?

Shaman-give him a sword or maybe a double handed weapon (for killing KD or Stunned models, and for scaring off enemies who may try to charge him). Give him new spells when he can get them and increase his defences.

Big 'Uns-I am torn here. Both I think should be combat oriented. Double handed weapon on one? Which upgrades? Maybe some bows so they can shoot a little while the gobbos die...

Ladz got talent-make the first one a sniper-crossbow, quickshot, move and shoot, scale sheer surfaces.

What weapons and combos are best to build towards for the orcs? What strategies should your orcs heroes follow: hang back and shoot or get into the mix and cause problems?

Is a blunderbuss a good option on an orc hero? 1 nasty shot per game... it does us up some money and a skill through. Fits well with the pirate fluff...
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 24 Mar 2010 - 15:44

Well, for starters, I've always wondered how effective an Orc Boss with a crossbow would be at the beginning of a campaign. Orcs need to conserve their heroes early on because they only get four. So I'd give the Boss a crossbow and let him hang back and provide cover fire. Not a very "orc" thing to do, but I always had a thing for Ruglug's Armoured Orcs.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 24 Mar 2010 - 16:56

I think it helps to have a role in mind when you are levelling up your warriors. For the leader I tend to go with everything that makes them a better leader as soon as possible. For an orc that is Da Cunning Plan for a start and then getting academic skills as soon as possible to get Hunch and Tactician.

The shaman is a bit unfortunate in that he is a caster without access to academic skills. I have not tried this long, but I am currently leveling mine as more of a fighter that can occasionally cast spells rather than a dedicated caster.

For the Big'Uns I make one specialised in having lots of attacks and I make the other one a specialist in high-strength attacks.

In my circle we use the interpretation that when a hero gets TLGT you get two skill tables of your choice *and* your racial so for us my TLGT orc heroes will get Shooting, Speed, and Orc skills. Or at least, that is what they would normally get. Shooting and speed is generally what I take when leveling up a sniper, but for orcs I am thinking perhaps taking Shooting, Combat, Orc or Shooting, Strength, Orc and have them as designated marksmen rather than snipers.

I haven't tried it out yet, but it is something different to what I normally do and I think orcs have the supporting skill table and stats to pull it off.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 24 Mar 2010 - 17:02

Lord O: "I have not tried this long, but I am currently leveling mine as more of a fighter that can occasionally cast spells rather than a dedicated caster."

I think that is the wise way to go with the orc shaman.* He has some really good offensive spells (Clubba being my current favorite).

Narcissus: "Big 'Uns-I am torn here. Both I think should be combat oriented. Double handed weapon on one? Which upgrades? Maybe some bows so they can shoot a little while the gobbos die... "

One of each! And I generally advocate missile weapons for heroes with 3+ BS - even with heroes that want to get close and put the boot in (like orcs), there are going to be times when you have a shot you want can take. You want as many possibilities to earn experience for your heroes as possible.

*Using "orc" and "wise" in the same sentence seems wrong, somehow.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 24 Mar 2010 - 17:04

The orc leader doesn't get academic skills does he? I was thinking about the crossbow on the leader early on, but he is the only one with S4 off the hop, so I thought a crossbow might be better on a Big 'Un.

What does everyone think about pistols on the leader and a blunderbuss on a LGT hero? It eats up a skill for each, but is very pirate orcy... I have an idea for converting an orc with leadbelcher arms and cannon and painting him like he has exploded a bit....
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 24 Mar 2010 - 17:34

No orc can gain academic skills, period. There are some events and encounters that can grant access, but I have never had any luck finding them,

In the last 2 campaigns I have armed my pirate orcs with blunderbusses. In the current campaign when I had 3 of them I ruled. Now with dead heroes and old battle wounds I'm lucky to get one shot off. But they are lovely fun. I have given my Big uns the dueling pistols because of the +1 to hit.

For 2 campaigns I started the boss with a crossbow for the St 4 missile attack from a BS 4. In this campaign I gave him a bow to go with his Booma. I go the start with a Troll route so the boss has to move in order for the troll to be effective. Nobody comes to a troll...
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 24 Mar 2010 - 19:11

I would definitely listen to Von Kurst for Orc pirates!

Now, after having very ineffective regular Orcs & Goblins years back, the prior two campaigns I purposefully made the most effective warband I could with them: all clubs and bows, just Orcs until I had 19, then added the Troll. This ruled in two campaigns straight, as with T4 Animosity-bearing Orcs, its all about the numbers (with flexibility for some shooting thrown in). In our current campaign the ruling combo has broken down, because Beastmen have shown up and proven > Orcs in HtH, and can shut down Orcs' shooting (due to quick moves and T4 as well).

'Eadbasher is a wonderful skill, btw... The other Orc skills to consider are 'Ard Ead, and Well 'Ard (if you're bumping armor saves, that is).

You could go double-handed after Strongman, or per a friend's advice, could just get a Halberd and get Mighty Blow for the same effect (then trade to double-handed if you later get Strongman).

Crossbows have proven troublesome to my Orcs in the past, at least before Nimble. I'd rather just get them a bow and let them get into HtH...
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Thu 25 Mar 2010 - 14:14

I have played Orcs a couple of times, and I have always gone with my Hero getting Strong Guy and bringing the death to all the get into Melee with him. Also Arming him with a cross bow works pretty well if you have a screen in front of him.

I started either Sword, and club, or double club, because no one has Armor early on. Then when I got a skill I took Strong Guy and swapped-out his two weapons for a double handed weapon. There is nothing sicker then watching him charge through a battle field killing guys every round until they route. I got to the point where I was getting an new upgrage almost every game.

The only thing I didn't like about using the Crossbow was that I couldn't move and shoot. Usually my orcs would flat-out run, or move and shoot their bows, so he would get left behind, then run to catch-up.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Fri 26 Mar 2010 - 3:50

I've used Orcs and Goblin "Pirates" in every campaign for the last 4 years of near-continuous campaigning.

The Halibuteers (used in two campaigns) started with a Troll and they were rigged for close combat: they regularly got their green hides tanned. They didn't have the numbers to hang around long enough to get to combat, so they lost most games by routing with causing any enemy casualties!

The Ogresuns (my most successful so far, used in three campaigns) went for high numbers and lots of crossbows. I had a small number of Goblins as cannon-fodder but the rest of the warband were double-club and crossbow armed. I maxed out their numbers very early on and I didn't bother with a Troll for them at all, but I did get a Warlock and Ogre Bodyguard for the last few games of the last campaign.

I'm currently using the Gloomwyrms. I went for a more varied mix of weapons: Henchmen with Two Handed Weapons, Spears and Swords! Only about half of the warband armed with crossbows. Boss and Big'Uns with Two Handed Weapons (with Strongman as soon as I could get a skill) and a Shaman with just his free dagger. I lost a lot to begin with, and I suffered from deaths among my Heroes, including the Shaman (at the start of the campaign) and the Boss (about half-way through). I finally added a Troll about a month ago and an Ogre Bodyguard yesterday. Not my most successful warband, but one of the most fun for shear variety.

I never used to recommend getting a Troll half way through a campaign. I used to say get one at the start, or not at all. But having tried all three I think saving up for one is the way to go now, so long as your aren't replacing too many lost Boyz it doesn't take too long...



Last edited by WarbossKurgan on Mon 29 Mar 2010 - 3:22; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Mon 29 Mar 2010 - 1:51

Lord 0 wrote:
In my circle we use the interpretation that when a hero gets TLGT you get two skill tables of your choice *and* your racial so for us my TLGT orc heroes will get Shooting, Speed, and Orc skills.

I prefer this interpretation. I also give human mercenaries warbands a special rule called Adaptability that let's promoted henchmen choose three skill lists instead of two because humans have no racial skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Tue 30 Mar 2010 - 19:08

Man, I am *loving* 'Ead Basher. A brutally deadly skill and it means I don't have to choose between a club or other weapon for my main hand which in turn means I can model all my orcs with axe and sword right from the get-go and then don't have to convert anything mid campaign. Not to everyone's taste, but personally I dislike chopping up my models once I have painted them.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 31 Mar 2010 - 13:52

@Lord O you mean you don't have enough Orcs for every possible weapon choice?

I know that I started with enough Orcs to have almost any weapon choice... the problem was that all of my Ocrs had double Choppa's or Spear and shield, I didn't have any Clubs, so my first warbands were mostly double ax or double sword, or ax and sword. Mostly because Choppa's look like axes or swords, depending on the model.

The nice thing about Orcs is that you can make a warband from a box of Orcs, you just Fancy Paint up your heroes or purchase a metal hero or two on the side. It's hard to make a magic user with the normal box bits that are as cool as the metal ones. You can also pick-up some squigs and squig herders pretty cheap as well. But since Squigs don't level-up they aren't as good as the game does on as other options.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 31 Mar 2010 - 14:17

Thanks for all of the great responses.

What do people think of duelling pistols on the leader or a hero?
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 31 Mar 2010 - 16:39

I love dueling pistols. And if your warband is supposed to be piratical, then they would be very in character.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Wed 31 Mar 2010 - 18:55

Von Kurst wrote:
I have given my Big uns the dueling pistols because of the +1 to hit.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Thu 1 Apr 2010 - 22:44

Rudeboy wrote:
@Lord O you mean you don't have enough Orcs for every possible weapon choice?
No, I don't. I have 6 metal orcs for my heroes, the metal shaman, and 15 orc boyz from the old Empire-vs-Orcs starter box. 5 have choppas and daggers, 5 have choppas and axes, and 5 have bows and choppas.
About the only reason I play orcs in Mordheim at all is because I saw the models below and just had to have them. Mordheim really just provided me with an excuse to buy the models Smile.

The one on the left is my leader. You can't see it from the front because his sleeves are in the way, but he has a massive hat on that has about 50 feathers on it. I decided that since this one had the biggest hat *and* the biggest codpiece, he must be the leader. I made a snotling weapon carrier for him that carries his crossbow. Later on he carries the leader's hunting rifle. I use the one on the right as a Bigg`Un with DH axe as my high-St specialist.


These two are my TLGT hero models. The one on the left archery specialist. He takes Shooting and Speed skills. The one on the right is my Blackpowder specialist and I have converted him to be holding a hunting rifle/handgun in his empty hand. You can't see it, but the rifle shown seperately is double-barreled. I give that to my leader.


The one on the left is my Mass-Attacks specialist. I have converted mine to have sword and axe. He is second-in-command because he has the second biggest hat and the second-biggest codpiece. The one on the right is my initial TLGT hero that eventually becomes the Blackpowder specialist. I give him a crossbow until he has the skills to use and I have purchased a handgun or hunting rifle. Then I swap the models.


I didn't like the faces though, so I have converted them all to have modern orc faces, It also means they have the same style face as the shaman.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Thu 1 Apr 2010 - 22:51

On the subject of dueling pistols, I support them on a leader or hero - especially for a pirate warband.

My warband is not piratical, but I am still getting a dueling pistol for my leader at the earliest opportunity. I have the skill to use it, but have so far failed to find one.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Fri 2 Apr 2010 - 7:39

I love those Foundry Renaissance orcs and ogres.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Fri 2 Apr 2010 - 11:59

Those are sweet mini's it makes me want to buy more Orcs.
It's a sickness, I know.

I was kidding about the Orcs, I can understand how it could be hard to get every choice Option. There are also quite a few options you would never want.

My lizardman warband I have now I made the mistake of putting together a couple of guys with blow guns. Trust me, you never want to buy a weapon that costs you 30 gold, and is Strength 1, when you can buy a 5 gold weapon with Strength 3.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Fri 2 Apr 2010 - 13:39

The orc leaders are awesome... who's the mini provider for those?
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Fri 2 Apr 2010 - 19:36

Foundry. Here is a link to the orc heroes (they call them Ogres on the site) and here is a link to some other orcs.

From memory it is one of those sites where you have to click the link, then choose which zone you want, then click the link again so it will take you to the right page.

If that doesn't work then just go to the site's main page. Then click 'our ranges' (second from the left) in the blue bar. In the Fantasy and Adventure section (second section down) you will find Ogres and Mercenary War Orcs. The pics I have shown are from the Ogres (there are more there that I didn't use) and the Mercenary War Orcs are dressed in the same period, but not quite so richly.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Fri 2 Apr 2010 - 21:43

The Foundry ogres are about the size of the more recent GW orcs, maybe a whisker larger, while the Foundry orcs are a bit smaller than GW orcs.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Sat 3 Apr 2010 - 7:39

GW Shaman and Foundry Boss (Big daft Ballaguthon) standing next to each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Sat 3 Apr 2010 - 8:11

When the Foundry Mercenary orc range was released everyone complained because the orcs were so much bigger than other current orcs so they re-named them ogres. Now they are small for ogres but so is the Mordheim Hired Sword Ogre that came out around the same time.

Wish I would have bought all of them I could when the range went on the sale rack at the LGS. As is I've got a grab bag of 6 of them and I no longer use the spear and halberd guys...

Need the guy with the Long Rifle.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate orc hero combos?   Sat 3 Apr 2010 - 8:49

Keep an eye on eBay. My wife is particularly fond of them and when she was collecting them it seemed like they went for relatively cheap prices there.

Do you have a picture of the particular one you want?
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