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 House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances

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hero
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PostSubject: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Sat 20 Feb 2010 - 11:37

An idea that's come up in my group recently is to have henchmen attack advances as guaranteed at the third or fourth advancement check box instead of being gained through random advances.

This prevents the situation of one warband a group of getting 2 A henchmen very early in a campaign and wrecking everybody all day. I appreciate that some people enjoy this sort of twist of fate but it's proved frustrating to a number of our players.

It could either replace the normal advance at whatever level it's gained or be gained in addition to a normal random advance (which might have odd consequences). If it completely replaces the normal advance perhaps they should still roll to see if they get That Lads got Talent! and ignore any other result.
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Sun 21 Feb 2010 - 21:16

Extra Attacks is certainly better that Leadership. But I wouldn't say it's any better than an extra point of Strength, for example.
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hero
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Tue 23 Feb 2010 - 2:32

I would, most definitely.
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Tue 23 Feb 2010 - 8:53

I think that the more you move away from the roll of the die, then the more you lose some of the luck feel of Mordheim. You are a rag tag gang that learns as they go, you aren't in a training situation where they teach you specially to be better at specific things.

But if the whole group agrees then I would suggest giving it a try. Tell us how it works.
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Tue 23 Feb 2010 - 11:08

I think it's a fine idea, if it's going to smooth things over with the group and make gameplay more enjoyable. One question: what will you count an attack advancement as if it is rolled on the first or second advancement? Or is this just to guarantee that if people don't roll an attack advance early on, they'll definitely get it a little later?
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Asp
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Tue 23 Feb 2010 - 16:14

extra attacks on henchmen is so much better than everything else that we removed that advance entirely
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hero
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Wed 24 Feb 2010 - 9:10

@Myntokk: I guess they'd get toughness... Wait, henchmen don't get wounds OR toughness? Jeez I don't know the rules as well as I thought. I'm not sure, but maybe I'd try letting them get a point of toughness. I suppose henchmen are supposed to be fragile, so maybe I'll do what Asp did and just expand the WS/BS advance to 7-9.

@Asp: That was definitely an option we looked at but we were worried that henchmen would become impotent compared with heroes late in campaigns (and melee warbands were outraged).

Any compelling arguments against giving henchmen toughness as a possible advance?
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Asp
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Wed 24 Feb 2010 - 13:39

only that henchemen should not get T5 (flagellants)
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Citizen Sade
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Wed 24 Feb 2010 - 14:19

Wouldn't happen seeing as T4 is the human racial maximum.
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Wed 24 Feb 2010 - 19:27

Yeah, I think a Toughness increase for henchmen would also be a good idea, especially if you're worried about henchmen becoming too weak compared to heroes.
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hero
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 12:13

Huh, I never really thought about that. Kind of sucks for flagellants they'll lose their edge in the long run. Makes me want to lower their stats and price but I always thought witch hunters needed something to justify the low warband max and mediocre heroes.
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 13:49

every henchman type looses some edge over time, except maybe maybe marksmen. Flagellants can only get I Ws Bs and A as their upgrades so at least they don't have to deal with getting a ld upgrade, and since they have to re-roll their strength and attack upgrades they have an increased chance of getting lads got talent
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 16:36

"Kind of sucks for flagellants they'll lose their edge in the long run.
Makes me want to lower their stats and price but I always thought witch
hunters needed something to justify the low warband max and mediocre
heroes."

I think they did a good job of balancing the original warbands, but the strengths and weaknesses do come in different ways. My impression has always been, as you say, that the Witch Hunter heroes are on the weak side - but make up for it with the nasty flagellants. Similarly, where Middenheimers get a nice boost to three of their heroes, Reiklanders instead receive a nice boost to one type of henchman. Sisters, on the other hand, have access to some really nice melee weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Mon 19 Apr 2010 - 11:09

Changing the +1 Attack to +1 Toughness on the Henchman advance table always made sense to me (Flagellants, as humans, still max out at 4 Toughness). You don't want somebody to roll an 8 for their big Henchman group after their second battle and suddenly they've got 5 guys with 2 attacks each (or 3 attacks, with dual wield) very early in the campaign -- that's ridiculous.

It's possible that you could still have Henchmen gain +1 Attack eventually, because you would get to pick if you roll 6-7 again after already advancing both +1 WS and +1 BS -- both would be "at their maximum," since Henchmen cannot advance any characteristic by more than +1. (At least, that's one way to interpret the rules ... ) So you could get +1 Attack as your third or fourth advance, as long as it's your third time rolling 6-7 on the advance table.

True, it would be unlikely (there's an 11 in 36 chance of rolling a 6 or 7 each time you roll 2D6) but taking into account rerolls after rolling "The Lad's Got Talent" or other characteristics that have already increased, it reasonably could happen later in the campaign.
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Mon 19 Apr 2010 - 11:13

I like MeanBone's suggestion - only allowing +1 A after the henchmen have advanced both WS and BS (or reached their racial maximum) would be a very good way to allow them to almost keep up with the heroes while not being over the top early in a campaign.

Well done, sir!
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Mon 19 Apr 2010 - 11:44

Thanks, Cygnus!
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Mon 19 Apr 2010 - 21:05

Interesting ideas Hero and MeanBone. I'll have to run it past my gaming group.
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PostSubject: Re: House Rules for Henchmen Attack Advances   Today at 14:50

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