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 Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL

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Knightei
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PostSubject: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Sun 3 Jan 2010 - 10:13

Theives Guild
Special Rules:
Theives:
Theives Love Stealing, Seriously They do. So in Close Combat Avery time a Theif hits and
your opponent must Take an Initiative Test On 2d6 or lose the opponent losses D6+1 Gold Crowns and you gain that number at the end of the match if the theif
doesn't get took out of action
Honour Amog Theives:
You Can NOT steal from Theif Guild Warbands
Skills:CombatShootingStrengthSpeedAcademic
LeaderXXXXX
MasterXXXX
AprenticeXXX
Theives ListStrong Man List
WeaponsWeapons
Dagger1st free, 2gc2h Weapons15 Gc
Sword10 GcSword 10 gc
Mace, Club, Hammer3 GcMorning Star15 gc
Axe5gcAxe 5 Gc
Missile WeaponsMissile Weapons
Short Bow10 gcNone
Bow15 gcArmour
CrossBow25 gcLight Armour 20 gc
Throwing Knives10 gcToughened Leather5 gc
Sling2 gcHeavy Armour50 gc
ArmourSheild5 gc
Light Armour20 gcHelmet10 gc
Toughened Leather5 gc
Helmet10 gc
Sheild5 gc
Buckler5 gc


Last edited by Knightei on Sun 3 Jan 2010 - 11:47; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Sun 3 Jan 2010 - 10:15

1 Theif Council Member 70 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
445331619
Uses Theif Equipment List
Skills:
Leader
Council member: lets the Council Member roll another exploration dice and choose between the two dice he rolled
0-2 Master Theif 40 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
444331518
Equipment: Theif List
0-2 Aprentice Theif 15 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
422331418
Equipment: Theif List
Henchmen
Pick Pocket 25 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
433331517
Equipment: Theif List
0-5 Theif 30 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
444331518
Equipment: Theif List
0-2 Door Breaker 35 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
444441418
Big: Door breakers start with the Strong Man Skill
Equipment: Strongman List
Ok Good and Bad points welcome!
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Sun 3 Jan 2010 - 15:04

umm more than a little overpowered when compared to mercenaries

for example for 5 more gold your master thieves have 1 more bs 2 more i and 1 more ld over a standard champion.

I understand that thieves would have above average initiative but not why they would be excellent marksmen all around. Nor do i understand why they have such high leadership.

the doorbreaker is a fine idea but they are way too powerfull, why does a toughman have above average marksmanship initiative and ld?
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Sun 3 Jan 2010 - 15:47

I also don't understand why the Leader should have access to all 5 of the core skillsets...Strength, for one, just doesn't seem to fit the impression of a Thief Guild, unless you're going more for a Thug's Guild. If so, then a lot of other things really don't fit either.
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Sun 3 Jan 2010 - 16:01

Bad Joke Warband such

Door Breaker 35 gc LoL yeah and Lead goes talent on first advance!

such henchmen stats should cost at least double that gold.

Also super sniping for no money is a bad joke Leader with BS-5 yeah give that gut a sling 2g and kick ass.

First u should take down BS deasticaly, especaly on leader and henchmen, why door breakers should have BS-4 they cant even use ranges weapons, it just imbalaces talents.

Finaly a thief gang should have lot less LD. the leader itself could get normal human LD-8 but other should be under common humans as thiefs arent brave or loyal, more backstabbing.
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 3:32

Ok harsh comments like those wern't expected but i did ask for them... Warband MKII
Theives Guild
Special Rules:
Theives:
Theives Love Stealing, Seriously They do. So in Close Combat Avery time a Theif hits an oppenent you opponent must take a inititive test on 2D6 or lose d6 Gold
you opponent must Take an Initiative Test On 2d6 or lose the opponent losses D6+1 Gold Crowns and you gain that number at the end of the match if the theif
doesn't get took out of action
Honour Amog Theives:
You Can NOT steal from Theif Guild Warbands
Skills:CombatShootingStrengthSpeedAcademic
LeaderXXXXX
Door BreakerXXX
AprenticeXXX
Theives ListStrong Man List
WeaponsWeapons
Dagger1st free, 2gc2h Weapons15 Gc
Sword10 GcSword 10 gc
Mace, Club, Hammer3 GcMorning Star15 gc
Axe5gcAxe 5 Gc
Missile WeaponsMissile Weapons
Short Bow10 gcNone
Bow15 gcArmour
CrossBow25 gcLight Armour 20 gc
Throwing Knives10 gcToughened Leather5 gc
Sling2 gcHeavy Armour50 gc
ArmourSheild5 gc
Light Armour20 gcHelmet10 gc
Toughened Leather5 gc
Helmet10 gc
Sheild5 gc
Buckler5 gc
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 3:32

1 Theif Council Member 70 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
444331618
Uses Theif Equipment List
Skills:
Leader
Council member: lets the Council Member roll another exploration dice and choose between the two dice he rolled
0-2 Door Breaker 50 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
420431317
Big: Door breakers start with the Strong Man Skill and they can't steal gold
Equipment: Strongman List
Aprentice theif 20 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
422331517
Equipment: Theif List
Henchmen
Pick Pocket 20 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
423331516
Equipment: Theif List
0-5 Theif 35 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
433331617
Equipment: Theif List
Ok that Mark II comments welcome (i shouldn't say tht)
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 3:52

Ok now to reply to commments
@Dmig I have fixed(ish) that
@Whisper ok merc captains have acsess to all five don't they? but these arn't mercs and i have dropped strength
@Keylan That was cruel what you said but oh well! Ok ALL henchmen has had some stats dropped the door breaker is now a hero (hmm maybe ws 3 instead of 2) AND they have ld 8/7 because they are a GUILD not a gang. The Guild respects all other members and have honour among theives
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 6:07

I wrote a good Thieves Guild warband way back in the days. I think it was something like this

Thief Prince
M - Ws - Bs - S - T - W - I - A - Ld
4 4 4 3 3 2 4 1 8

Special Skills:
Leader

Access to All skills except Strength.

Second was a Halfling Rogue, with the same stats as the Halfling Scout, but started with the Snipe rule (can shoot from hiding and stay hidden).

Then you could have three Thieves, which had standard warrior stats (Ws, Bs, S, T, I of 3, Ld 7) but had the rule Thieving, that was almost like the one you have. If a Thief was not taken OOA during a battle, he has collected 1d6gc from every enemy model he took OOA during the battle.

The henchmen were Cutthroats (warriors with +1 to injury rolls. They were quite expensive, but their stats are as a normal warrior, and their equipment choices are poor).

Also, Thugs (cannon fodder henchmen, with stats as youngbloods. Drunkards and other outlaws who just cling to the Thief Prince as a refuge from the law).
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 6:18

that ones good but i don't like the cutthroats and Thugs because they arn't theives! any way heres the starting exp and warband size AND what hired swords they can have... Oh and door breaker Ws is 3 not 2

Starting Exp
Council Member 20 xp
Door Breaker 12 xp
Aprentice 0 xp
Henchmen 0 xp
Maximum Warband size 15
Should the size be 12? Comments welcome...
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 6:53

Yeah, i figured. You want a Thief GUILD, not a Band of Rogues Smile thats cool, im game.

The Door Breakers seem a little rough in the edges, though I u nderstand the basic idea. How about changing them to Burglars (who are also good at getting past doors, but in a more thievish way, I suppose). Burglar with standard warrior stats, but maybe with a special rule. He automatically "see" any models within the same building as he, as he is an expert at infiltrating houses and detecting dangers within them. That would mean he can spot any hidden enemies within the same building, even on other floors, and also charge around corners (just like the imperial assassin, he knows you're there!).

Also, consider having an assassin styled Hero (one), with the Infiltration skill as starting skill. Id go with Champion stats, as an assassin is highly trained in combat and knows where it hurts on the opponent. Maybe switch for the apprentice? What do you figure?
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 8:43

Hmmm tempting... i was going to add a We are theives not murders rule that made sure they can't use poisons but... Hmmm yes... Well maybe 1 door breaker and assassin and a burgler... Maybe i'm thinking on that... maybe replace a door breaker (i will still have 1!) with an assassin... And have a henchmen choice of 3 burglers... maybe... i'll have to think on them...
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 10:54

I like the idea of a thieves guild warband - especially if you convert models and show us some pictures in the future .
I see that you have tweaked some of the stats down already - but initiative needs to go down, too. The council member and normal thieves are ini 6 - that is the racial maximum for humans. Thieves should have good ini, but that high?
I suggest lowering it to 4 and to 3 for the other henchmen (which are undercosted with their current initiative).
I like the doorbreaker / enforcer types. Keep at least one of them in the list, even if you add a burglar or assassin. But Strenght 4 and strongman seems to be a very strong combination, maybe the cost should go up a bit to 55 or so? Not sure about the right price.
Your special rule for stealing from others can be crippling for other warbands and gives the thieves guild way too much money. An unlimited number of robberies of d6+1 gold is too much. You do not limit it in some way, and i fail to see how a thief can hit (and possibly wound) an opponent and steal from him at the same time. Maybe limit it to one attempt per game and make it an ini test for the pickpocket, too.
Keep up the work, and remember that most people tend to be too generous with stats and special rules when they create a warband they really like - less is often more. After all someone has to play against you - and he/she should have fun, too.
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 11:01

Ok version 3!!!

Theives Guild
Special Rules:
Theives:
Theives Love Stealing, Seriously They do. So in Close Combat Avery time a Theif hits an oppenent you opponent must take a inititive test on 2D6 or lose d6 Gold
Gold Crowns and you gain that number at the end of the match if the theif deosn't get took out of action
A theif can do this d3 times a match
Honour Amog Theives:
You Can NOT steal from Theif Guild Warbands
Skills:CombatShootingStrengthSpeedAcademic
LeaderXXXX
Door BreakerXXX
AprenticeXXX
Theives ListStrong Man List
WeaponsWeapons
Dagger1st free, 2gc2h Weapons15 Gc
Sword10 GcSword 10 gc
Mace, Club, Hammer3 GcMorning Star15 gc
Axe5gcAxe 5 Gc
Missile WeaponsMissile Weapons
Short Bow5 gcNone
Bow10 gcArmour
CrossBow25 gcLight Armour 20 gc
Throwing Knives10 gcToughened Leather5 gc
Sling2 gcHeavy Armour50 gc
ArmourSheild5 gc
Light Armour20 gcHelmet10 gc
Toughened Leather5 gc
Helmet10 gc
Sheild5 gc
Buckler5 gc
Assassin List
Weapons
Sword 10gc
Dagger1st free 2gc
Club3 gc
MissileWeapons
Short Bow5 gc
Bow10 gc
CrossBow25 gc
Repeater Crossbow40 gc
Throwing Knives15 gc
CrossBow Pistol40 gc
Armour
Light Armour20 gc
Helmet10 gc
Buckler5 gc
Sheild5 gc
Toughened Leathers5 gc
Misc. Items
Black Lotus15 gc
Dark Venom35 gc
Lucky Charm10 gc
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 11:02

Starting Exp
Council Member 20 xp
Door Breaker 12 xp
Assassin 12 xp
Aprentice 0 xp
Henchmen 0 xp
Maximum Warband size 15
1 Theif Council Member 70 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
444331518
Uses Theif Equipment List
Skills:
Leader
Council member: lets the Council Member roll another exploration dice and choose between the two dice he rolled
0-1 Door Breaker 50 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
430441417
Big: Door breakers start with the Strong Man Skill and can't steal
Equipment: Strongman List
0-1 Guild Assassin 40 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
443331517
Stealthy: Starts with the infiltrater skill but can't steal
Assassin: can look for poisons for -2 rarity
Equipment: Assassin List
0-2 Aprentice Theif 15 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
422331417
Equipment: Theif List
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 11:04

Henchmen
Pick Pocket 25 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
423331415
Equipment: Theif List
0-5 Theif 30 gc
MWSBSS T W I A Ld
433331516
Equipment: Theif List
Comments welcome! And i will (when i have finished m current warband, my empire and brettonia armies... or maybe just after the empire one...)
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Tue 5 Jan 2010 - 1:17

Its getting better and better.

I would skip the Door Brakers myself, but I dont say you should. This is your warband idea and I suspect you have your vision clear so I wont interfere with that.

If you want your assassin to be less "assassinlike", remove the poison finding skill and give him Climb Sheer Surfaces instead, as that skill would also be favourable for an assassin, dont you think?
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Tue 5 Jan 2010 - 1:57

I found this on the Mordheimer Information Centre. It is written by a Donato Ranzato and has very good tips on what to keep in mind as you create your own warband.

------------------------------

Hello, Below I will give some suggestions that you can keep in mind when you are evaluating and/or writing Warbands. These are also the things I look out for when reading through submitted Warbands. The list is not in a specific sequence:

Keep warriors with special abilities/rules to a minimum.

Decide on the primary strength of the Warband (e.g., shooting or close combat or average in both).

Try to include at least one weak and cheap troop type (e.g., NightRunners, Zombies, Youngbloods).

Try to keep to 5 special skills for the Warband.

If the Warband has access to Magic spells or Prayers, try to include some weak spells/prayers.

Watch out for an arms race (e.g., if you decide a "normal" good warrior has WS 5, what kind of WS would Vampires have?).

If the Warband is good in both shooting and close combat then keep the maximum size to around 12.

If the warband is only good in one thing then raise the Warband size to 20.

Try not to let the Warband have an advantage from the start (e.g., if the fluff says that they are good explorers make that into a special skill).

If the Warband is average overall with 2 or more weak troop types then give it a "Heavy Hitter" (Ogre, Troll, etc.)

Don't try to translate the complete army book into a Warband, but decide on a theme, region or race.

Try to keep the amount of Heroes to five. Four and six should be exceptions. Don't give the Warband less then 4 Hero types or more then 6.

If you decide to give a warrior type a special rule or ability then see if a weapon or equipment does roughly the same and then add the cost of that piece of equipment to the basic cost of that type of warrior (e.g., If you give Saurus Braves "scaly skin" which is roughly the same as Heavy Armor then add 50 gc to their basic cost).

And finally KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!).

Well, these are the ones that I could come up with from the top of my head. Hopefully they are useful to some of you on the list.

-Donato Ranzato

-----------------------
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Tue 5 Jan 2010 - 5:11

I still can't get, how can one hit someone with sword (or whatever) and go through his pockets at the same time...

I understand, that you want your Thief warband to steal, that's natural... but who's ever seen a thief stealing in hand-to-hand, life-or-death combat..

Even doesn't taking previous thoughts into account, can you imagine your stealing skill in game or campaign? Average and most frequent roll on 2D6 is 7. Most I values are around 3 to 5 and human maximum is 6. And how many succesful hits are you able to score during one game? It seems to me, that after one such a battle this Thief gang is almost able to bleed white for example a cultist warband, saving gc for their next possessed.

I'd prefer to solve this fluff (I hope that fluff is the point, what is this skill all about, isn't it) subject in post-battle sequence somehow, or so.
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Tue 5 Jan 2010 - 9:02

Hmm ok the theif skill is an inititive test AFTER battle and gain 1d6 gold... I assassin has the -2 to find poisons scrapped and instead starts with scale sheer surfaces (thanks ophelaite!) AND pick pockets are 20 gc now... i'll send up mk. IV later...
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PostSubject: Re: Theif Guild war Band EXPERIMENTAL   Tue 5 Jan 2010 - 9:24

I liked the pickpocketing while fighting, in those most wanted shows on tv theres always a bunch of seemingly clumbsy tourists that bump into you and steal your wallet, your carkeys, your wife and the birthright of your firstborn in half a second flat Razz and when you finally realize they've made of with your pants they've already left the country.
how about letting them steal while fighting, but they can't gain a second attack as they are already using two
(with one being the stealing).

or instead of gaining a second attack they gain the pickpocket skill?
as I assume not all theives are master pickpockets and it
reflects how they've been training on in back in the camp
(TMNT little bells on a straw puppet in a dark room style! Karate )

(why don't we have a ninja emoticon?)
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