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ianward09
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PostSubject: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 5:05

when you buy 4 or 5 warriors and put them in a group when one get experience do they all get it ?
im not sure how this worls
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WarbossKurgan
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 5:08

Yes, Henchmen groups earn experience together - they all get the same advances as well. In all but a few scenarios Henchmen only get one experience point for surviving the game anyway - they will progress quite slowly normally.
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ianward09
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 5:21

so if one of the group takes someone out of the game do they all get the experience?
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 6:08

Henchmen don't get experience for taking opponents out of action. Only heroes get that award.
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 7:49

Yes, the only, ONLY, way a henchmengroup can gain experience is to survive. That is, if the group is altogether INTACT after a game, they get 1 xp. The GROUP that is, not one per warrior.

That means, if one or more warriors are taken OOA during a game, they still count as having survived as long as they are not removed as casualties after the game, when rolling for injuries. However, if one model DOES die, and is removed from the roster, the group in which he belonged does NOT gain any experience this time.

At least that is how we always done it, and the rules feel pretty clear on this matter too.
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 8:23

Opheliate wrote:
Yes, the only, ONLY, way a henchmengroup can gain experience is to survive. That is, if the group is altogether INTACT after a game, they get 1 xp. The GROUP that is, not one per warrior.

That means, if one or more warriors are taken OOA during a game, they still count as having survived as long as they are not removed as casualties after the game, when rolling for injuries. However, if one model DOES die, and is removed from the roster, the group in which he belonged does NOT gain any experience this time.

At least that is how we always done it, and the rules feel pretty clear on this matter too.

I'm afraid that is incorrect.

Even if one member of the group was taken OOA and then died on the serious injury roll, as long as there was at least one surviving member of that group then they still earn the xp. They only fail to count as surviving if the entire group was wiped out (all taken OOA then roll a 1-2 for each warrior on the serious injury roll).
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WarbossKurgan
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 8:26

Yeah, that's how we play it too catferret.

There is also at least one scenario where a Henchman group can get an extra XP from finding Wyrdstone or treasure or something. Very Happy
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Jadex
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 8:26

Also, there ARE certain scenarios that allow for henchmen to get extra experience, given they carry a wyrdstone, tome, book, barrel, ... (whathever the scenario objective) is at the end of the game or off the table
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 8:27

WarbossKurgan wrote:
There is also at least one scenario where a Henchman group can get an extra XP from finding Wyrdstone or treasure or something. Very Happy

Damnit, I'm to slow...
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 8:50

catferret wrote:
Opheliate wrote:
Yes, the only, ONLY, way a henchmengroup can gain experience is to survive. That is, if the group is altogether INTACT after a game, they get 1 xp. The GROUP that is, not one per warrior.

That means, if one or more warriors are taken OOA during a game, they still count as having survived as long as they are not removed as casualties after the game, when rolling for injuries. However, if one model DOES die, and is removed from the roster, the group in which he belonged does NOT gain any experience this time.

At least that is how we always done it, and the rules feel pretty clear on this matter too.

I'm afraid that is incorrect.

Even if one member of the group was taken OOA and then died on the serious injury roll, as long as there was at least one surviving member of that group then they still earn the xp. They only fail to count as surviving if the entire group was wiped out (all taken OOA then roll a 1-2 for each warrior on the serious injury roll).

Hm, after having browsed through the rulebook, and finding several places that decribe Xp gaining, I have com to the same conclusion.

Catferret, I apologize and bow to your wisdom.
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catferret
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 9:10

I wouldn't bow to me, I'd made the same mistake for years.

I just hadn't thought about it much but then some friends and I discussed it and realised we probably hadn't been doing things correctly. This theory seemed to be supported by discussions that appeared on various forums as well.

We live and learn I guess.
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Opheliate
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 10:02

catferret wrote:
I wouldn't bow to me, I'd made the same mistake for years.

I just hadn't thought about it much but then some friends and I discussed it and realised we probably hadn't been doing things correctly. This theory seemed to be supported by discussions that appeared on various forums as well.

We live and learn I guess.

Well said Smile

Same situation here, as it appears our group has played with "wrong" interpretation of this particular set of rules for years now, too Razz
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ianward09
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 10:27

so its better to put them in groups ?
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Opheliate
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 10:33

Yeah, henchmen should always be bought in groups. They arent heroes, after all.
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 10:58

That is wrong. Early in a campaign it is much better to have your henchmen in groups of one (single) as that increases your chances for getting a new hero substantially. And heroes make money...henchmen do not.
Later - after you have six heroes - you can always expand your groups of one by buying new henchmen with XP for them. Ideally you should choose a group that has rolled a decent advance like +1 attack or something like that.
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 11:25

It's not wrong, it's just a choise one makes. I'd personally put my henchmen 1 warrior per group, but that doesn't mean that putting more warriors in a group is wrong.

If I use goblins it could be better to put them more in a group, because they are killed if they roll LGT and than the advances would be lost if only 1 was in that "group"
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 12:12

Haratius summed up the good points of henchmen organization very well. I'll add that another thing to think about is certain scenarios which split your warband. Sometimes you will need to roll a dice for each hero and henchmen group to see if they start on the table; having groups of five or one could make a huge impact in your deployment in such scenarios.
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 13:20

It is only wrong because opheliate said they should ALWAYS be in groups . Thatīs not a choice
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 13:32

Opheliate wrote:
Yeah, henchmen should always be bought in groups. They arent heroes, after all.

From the responses here, I feel I should make my opinion more clear:
Being fluffy, I resent power gaming, and thus, IMHO, henchmen should always be bought in groups. But hey, that is just me...
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 14:17

apart from trying to get LGT, whether to group them or keep them solo is up to you. Keeping them solo means that each henchman is going to advance independently (obviously), and generally you'll probably level out between henchies with good advancements and those with worse advancements. Grouping them is a gamble - if you roll a good advancement then you just got 5 henchmen with that advancement, but if you roll a crummy advancement then that's a bunch of henchmen that aren't going to perform as well.

And even though keeping henchmen individual may be considered powergaming in some instances, to me that is still the "fluffy" way to play them (for the most part) - Mordheim is about rag-tag bands of individuals and even the henchmen are individuals.
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 14:54

Myntokk wrote:
...to me that is still the "fluffy" way to play them (for the most part) - Mordheim is about rag-tag bands of individuals and even the henchmen are individuals.

That's the approach I take actually. I try to never have two models with identical equipment unless I have no choice. Well, in a starting warband at least. As the warband hires more warriors it can get hard to keep everybody individual.
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 15:03

I generally try to reach a compromise between the gamble of taking full-strength groups and individuals, taking them in units of two to three.

Also, it seems you guys add henchmen to your existing henchmen groups? I don't think I've ever played it that way... if your group has a bunch of advancements, and you add members to that group, do they get the advancements the group made without them? That's why I've never done that - it seems odd to me. In my group, if you buy a group of henchmen, they have to be bought all at once if they're going to be in the same group... that way they get experience at the same rate.
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 15:10

You can add extra henchmen to groups: Say you have a henchman group with 3Xp (and they got +1S as advance, which is good ) and you want to add a warrior. First you roll 2D6 to see how much XP is "available" lets say you roll 8. Then you can buy two extra warroirs for the grouop (=6xp < 8xp available). You pay more though: 2gc per XP. So buying these 2 extra models with 3xp would cost 2x3x2gc=12gc MORE (on top off normal cost and on top of equipment). This extra cost represents the experience you "but with them".
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 15:12

Ah okay, that makes a lot more sense then. I found it odd that they'd get free XP. What page is that on? :3
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PostSubject: Re: groups Experience   Tue 15 Dec 2009 - 15:19

it's in the rules review

(don't know if they put it in the LRB)
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