HomeFAQSearchRegisterUsergroupsBlogLog inGolden Tom 2014 Thread!

Share | 
 

 Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Thu 10 Dec 2009 - 18:12

alternate take #1

Club 5gc common

Bash: +1 Strength vs. enemies knocked down.

Axe 5gc common
Cleave: +1 Strength vs. enemies with Thoughtness or more 4 on profile.


Last edited by Asp on Sat 12 Dec 2009 - 14:15; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Thu 10 Dec 2009 - 18:14

Biggest minus I can think of in this setup would be that Heroes would be carrying Clubs far more often than Axes in order to kill-steal XP.

(First pointed out by Master.)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Thu 10 Dec 2009 - 18:27

looks like to be that clubs would be favored more starting up but once T3 warbands start advancing, the axe would be more and more appealing.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
BossFacePunch
Warrior
Warrior


Posts : 24
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-03-02

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Thu 10 Dec 2009 - 18:51

I'd use the club more, since its ability triggers more often. Later in the campaign, or if I was playing against a good number of orc and/or dwarf warbands, I'd use the axe. That is assuming the axe's ability works on models with 4 or greater Toughness not just 4 Toughness.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Thu 10 Dec 2009 - 20:10

edited axe to four or more

too bad that they arent balanced Sad
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Opheliate
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 855
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-11-12
Age : 31
Location : Sweden

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Skaven Skaven
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Thu 10 Dec 2009 - 22:51

Id say the cleave rule actually should be on low T models. I mean, to "cleave" someone, it is easier the softer the thing youre trying to cleave is. A goblin would be much easier to cleave than an ogre. That way, I'd say the Axe has a +1S vs all T3 and below. That means the axe is a medium-to-small sized slayer weapon, but it gets weaker after a while, when some warriors reach T4. However, some still have T3, like most animals. That feels more correct to me at least.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://sites.google.com/site/denofdamnation/
BossFacePunch
Warrior
Warrior


Posts : 24
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-03-02

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 0:21

Giving the axe +1S vs 3 or lower toughness doesn't help balance out the two weapons any better though, it just reverses whats going on now. It makes the club a better choice for fighting high toughness models and the axe a better choice for fighting low toughness models. I do agree that fluffwise the change would make sense but either way both versions presented would still make for a more useful weapon then the core axe.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Opheliate
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 855
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-11-12
Age : 31
Location : Sweden

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Skaven Skaven
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 1:28

Personally, i think the core rules are good as they are. Maybe give the club a +1 S vs models without helmet, and give the axe +1 on any critical hit rolls (chopping off a body part)?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://sites.google.com/site/denofdamnation/
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 6:14

Quote :
Personally, i think the core rules are good as they are.

you use a lot of axes, then?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Opheliate
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 855
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-11-12
Age : 31
Location : Sweden

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Skaven Skaven
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 6:31

Actually yes, mostly as fluff though. I am a very fluffy person

That also means, of course, that my Marienburgers wont use axes even if I wanted them to, as that isnt fluffy. And my Middenheimers go Mace/Axe in a two weapon combination as that would be more fluffy for them. Some call me stupid, I say I am stupid, but the games are much more fun, and requires more strategic thinking as well
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://sites.google.com/site/denofdamnation/
CygnusMaximus
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 230
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-07-15
Location : Utah, USA

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Averlanders Averlanders
Achievements earned:

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 7:06

BossFacePunch wrote:
Giving the axe +1S vs 3 or lower toughness doesn't help balance out the two weapons any better though, it just reverses whats going on now. It makes the club a better choice for fighting high toughness models and the axe a better choice for fighting low toughness models. I do agree that fluffwise the change would make sense but either way both versions presented would still make for a more useful weapon then the core axe.

But as long as we're trying to keep things "realistic" - how about adding a "gets stuck" rule to balance that out since axes do tend to stick in their targets from time to time...

For example: If a model armed with an axe takes an opponent out of action with a natural roll of 6 on the injury table, the axe has embedded itself in the victim's flesh/armour/whatever. The wielder of the axe cannot attack again until he passes a Strength test OR abandons the axe (in which case it is lost permanently).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Popmouth
Ancient
Ancient


Posts : 479
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-12-10
Age : 29
Location : Gothemburg, Sweden

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Kislevites Kislevites
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 7:40

How about giving the clubs +1S bonus only to < T3 this would make them good early on in the campaign, then when T4 starts to pop up, they lose value.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
catferret
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 508
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-08-10

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Kislevites Kislevites
Achievements earned:

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 7:59

I don't think the weapons themselves need changing. The special rules in the core rulebook cover what the weapons are intended for for the most part (axes for piercing armour, clubs for concussion). I think clubs and (flanged) maces could do with being separated out as they combined concussion as well as armour piercing capability.

I think the issue is more down to the armour/critical/injury rules again, rather than adding conditional abilities to weapons. I dislike conditional rules. Too much remembering if you get +2S under a full moon on Tuesdays but only while attacking pigs and you're carrying the correct toll for the bridge. Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Opheliate
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 855
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-11-12
Age : 31
Location : Sweden

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Skaven Skaven
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 8:20

Popmouth wrote:
How about giving the clubs +1S bonus only to < T3 this would make them good early on in the campaign, then when T4 starts to pop up, they lose value.

That was what I was suggesting earlier, but I didnt explain as simple as you
I always use too many words and make things much more complicated than they need be.

Anyways, the idea was discarded. I still feel the original rules are best, though.

And yeah, adding conditions just make things as complicated as my posts. I always go by "Less is more". If anything, i'd let the blunt weapons be, and just make the axe a +1 on any ciritcal hit table instead of armour piercing.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://sites.google.com/site/denofdamnation/
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 8:59

*waiting for wyldhunt or master to join this thread*
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Ezekiel
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 909
Trading Reputation : 5
Join date : 2008-02-05
Age : 32
Location : Amsterdam

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Merchants (BTB) Merchants (BTB)
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Fri 11 Dec 2009 - 14:24

I as well deem the rules good as they are now... but if you must add to the axe's useability, then try applying the "cleave" rule to the armour... (use as armour piercing) as it has a nice little edge to cut trough that, and after that, it's all the same, weather you are toughness 2 or 5, you will suffer the pain...
it does not help however to increase the fluff side of them being used earlier on in the campaign, as no-one will have armour yet...

you could give them a crit roll on 5/6's?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.mysthconcepts.nl
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Sat 12 Dec 2009 - 14:14

alternate take #2:

Club 5gc common
Concussions: Treat Injury Rolls of 2 as stunned

Axe 5gc common
Cleave: +1 Strength vs. enemies knocked down.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
hero
Elder
Elder


Posts : 310
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-05

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Sat 12 Dec 2009 - 14:24

You know what I was actually thinking of doing is taking away armor penetration based on strength (with appropriate adjustments!). Then shields and stuff become more useful and so do black powder weapons and axes. Would probably add armor penetration special rules to some other weapons like halberds and great weapons, maybe even give it to crossbows. This way armor never just gets out-scaled by strength gain and such.

I haven't thought this through or playtested it even slightly so who knows it could be a game wrecker.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Sat 12 Dec 2009 - 14:29

Quote :
You know what I was actually thinking of doing is taking away armor penetration based on strength

comming in the next version of coreheim

strength negation is an heirloom from warhammer that only clutters up mordheim
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
wyldhunt
Elder
Elder


Posts : 337
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-06-19
Location : Atlanta, GA

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Ostlanders Ostlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Sat 12 Dec 2009 - 20:44

With alternative take #2, I'd give the clubs to my henchmen and axes to my heroes - I like that result much better than "+1S vs KD" on clubs. I do like this - much more strategic than my suggestion of "+1S on a hit roll of 6" for axes.

If some of your players really want a cheaper melee weapon, then split club from mace, and remove Concussion from club, leaving it with mace.

However, since the "+1S on a hit roll of 6" is part of a larger Critical Hits system we're adding to our rules set, unfortunately I won't be using your adjustments in our rules (at least not this go-around). If you do use alternative take #2, please let us me know how it goes after a campaign - I'd like to see the playtesting results.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://wyldhaunt.blogspot.com/
tralli



Posts : 4
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-14

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Wed 3 Feb 2010 - 9:55

I think +1 strength makes a weapon too powerful, especially in relation to swords, halberds and double-handed weapons. Why not make a club stun on 2-5 on the inury chart? That way it has a drawback compared to axes and the axe makes for a more viable choice.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
alveiz
Champion
Champion


Posts : 55
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-15

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Dwarfs Dwarfs
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Wed 3 Feb 2010 - 11:35

tralli wrote:
I think +1 strength makes a weapon too powerful, especially in relation to swords, halberds and double-handed weapons. Why not make a club stun on 2-5 on the inury chart? That way it has a drawback compared to axes and the axe makes for a more viable choice.

I'm with you, I see no sense in changing them. They're cool as they are... Clubs stunning on 2-5 on the injury chart and Axe giving an additional -1 to the ward save of the enemy...
Giving +1 Str to any warrior fighting against a kd enemy for the cost of 5 gc is too cheap and pretty unbalancing, if this happens no one will ever buy a sword again in my campaign.
Despite I find that the real issue from official rules equipment is armor (too elevated costs for too low results) I would not change their rules because in our group we find no need on retouching this rules, as we find the armor as an ultimate chance of saving your hero and only leaders and some heroes benefit for wearing this.
I would only modify to the official rules: playing shield + weapon should give a +2 bonus against melee attacks and +1 bonus against missile.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mweaver
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1411
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-13
Location : South Texas, U.S.A.

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Wed 3 Feb 2010 - 13:04

I like them fine as they are - and see a good mix of
clubs/maces/hammer/table legs, axes, and swords in our warbands.
These changes would make swords fairly uncommon. Currently, as
warbands become more affluent, it tends to be swords and axes that
predominate in our groups, but that is OK with me, too, since I think
your average melee dude would rather pack a axe and sword than a big
stick. They look sexier, and posturing for the ladies is
important, you know.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dmig
Knight
Knight


Posts : 98
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-03-08
Location : Massachusetts, USA

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Wed 3 Feb 2010 - 13:18

I have recently playtested some rules revisions that I want include in my group with a friend of mine which included shields at +2 save in cc and armor modifiers starting at str 5.

This made axes more useful though clubs still seem more useful.

I like the clubs making 2-5 stunned idea
Back to top Go down
View user profile
alveiz
Champion
Champion


Posts : 55
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-01-15

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Dwarfs Dwarfs
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Wed 3 Feb 2010 - 13:27

mweaver wrote:
They look sexier, and posturing for the ladies is
important, you know.
And that is what makes the difference on a campaign: the ladies Razz
Hehehe

Dmig wrote:
I have recently playtested some rules revisions that I want include in my group with a friend of mine which included shields at +2 save in cc and armor modifiers starting at str 5.
Is it doing fine?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?   Today at 14:47

Back to top Go down
 
Alternate Club/Axe Setup: Which Would You Use More?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Beano Club closed to new members
» Ouran High School Host Club!
» Possessed Warband Alternate Figures?
» Jennifer Aniston hosts dinner party in her Water Club suite
» Midnight Club: LA on xbox. Some of my cars

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum :: General Discussion :: Rules and Gameplay-
Jump to: