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Jadex
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PostSubject: 3 rules questions   Tue 8 Dec 2009 - 11:27

I have a few questions (which I might have missed in the rulebook... )

1) When shooting at a KD/stunned model and you hit and wound: do you still have to make an injury roll, or is th emodel auto OOA? IIRC I read/saw that you STILL have to roll for injury. So when wounded from an ranged attack as a KD or stunned model an injury roll still has to be made. Is this correct?

2) When running, no enemy models may be within 8" of the starting position (unless charging). How to interpret this? Is this 8" the closest "walkable" path to the enemy model? Or a direct line? If a direct line is the case, is LOS required? Could an enemy model within an 8" straight line but out of sight behind a building prevent your models from running? What about "in LOS and within 8", but on top of a climable piece of scenery"?

3) Is there a maximum number of Henchmen groups? The roster provides 6 slots: is this the max?

Thank you!
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Gobbo Freak
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PostSubject: Re: 3 rules questions   Tue 8 Dec 2009 - 13:08

1. Yes. The auto OOA rule only applies in CC.
2. If (at the start of your turn) there is an enemy within 8" (in a direct line) of your warrior, then your warrior may not run in that turn.
3. No there is no limit. You can have all 1 member groups if you wish. Say i.e. Orcs can have 20 models. You have 6 Orc heroes there is still 14 henchmen left. It is possible to have more than 6 henchmen groups if you wish.
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Jadex
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PostSubject: Re: 3 rules questions   Tue 8 Dec 2009 - 13:18

Thanks!

A bit of nitpicking though...

Gobbo Freak wrote:
2. If (at the start of your turn) there is an enemy within 8" (in a direct line) of your warrior, then your warrior may not run in that turn.

What if the enemy is within 8" and...
- out of sight? (from your comment I'd say still "no running"?)
- hidden? (hidden as per 'the rules')

Thanks/Sorry!
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Asp
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PostSubject: Re: 3 rules questions   Tue 8 Dec 2009 - 17:05

1. auto OOA iirc
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Gobbo Freak
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PostSubject: Re: 3 rules questions   Wed 9 Dec 2009 - 2:19

Still no running. It doesn't matter how your enemy is behaving, he's still in 8"
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Jadex
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PostSubject: Re: 3 rules questions   Wed 9 Dec 2009 - 3:06

Asp wrote:
1. auto OOA iirc

Gobbo Freak wrote:
1. Yes. The auto OOA rule only applies in CC.

mmm, Are you both stating opposite rulings?
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Meister Ostalgie
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PostSubject: Re: 3 rules questions   Wed 9 Dec 2009 - 3:22

Note: please go and read the rulebook yourself first. It saves the people who are so kind of helping you out a lot of time explaining what is explained in the official rules.

Onto your questions:

1) If your model is HtH with an enemy model that is KD, you have to roll a D6 to Wound only. If successful, the enemy model rolls on the Injury table. If the enemy model is Stunned, your model can sacrifice one of its attacks and make the enemy model go OOA instantly. No D6 required.
If you try to do the same shooting, you have to roll to Hit first, since you can't auto-Hit while shooting. You need aim!

Gobbo Freak wrote:
Still no running. It doesn't matter how your enemy is behaving, he's still in 8"
Uhm... no Sir!

2) The 8" mentioned is to be measured as the bird flies. If the enemy model is within 8", but hidden, your own models within 8" of the hidden model can run, observing all the standard movement rules. LoS is irrelevant in these cases.
Furthermore, any model auto-detects enemy models within a range in inches equal to its Initiative. So, most Human models auto-detect within 4", meaning no enemy models can hide in this area. And since the enemy models are instantly un-hidden, members of your Warband cannot run (because they are within 8" of and unhidden unit). Using a Lantern or Torch increases the detection-range by 4", which can be interesting.

3) From the Rulebook:
Quote :
Henchmen
Henchmen typically fall into two groups. There are Henchmen such as the Brethren of the Possessed,
Skaven Verminkin and Mercenary Swordsmen. These Henchmen gain experience and become better as
time goes by.
They are bought in groups of one to five models.
The other type of Henchmen are those such as Warhounds and Zombies. These are too dim or too
primitive to gain experience.
Henchmen may never use any special equipment you acquire during their adventures (unless otherwise noted); only Heroes may do so. Henchmen can include potentially powerful warriors, but Heroes always have an edge over them with their potential to gain extra experience.
All Henchmen belong to a Henchmen group, which usually consists of between one and five individuals.
Henchmen groups gain experience collectively and gain advances together.

All you need to know about Henchmen is in the quote above. So there's no maximum on the number of groups, but the maximum number of models per Henchmen group is five.
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PostSubject: Re: 3 rules questions   Wed 9 Dec 2009 - 4:05

Meister Ostalgie wrote:
1) If your model is HtH with an enemy model that is KD, you have to roll a D6 to Wound only. If successful, the enemy model rolls on the Injury table. If the enemy model is Stunned, your model can sacrifice one of its attacks and make the enemy model go OOA instantly. No D6 required. If you try to do the same shooting, you have to roll to Hit first, since you can't auto-Hit while shooting. You need aim!

Yes, we've played it like this for years: autohit when in HtH, still "to wound" when KD and "auto OOA" if succesfully wounded. But, the question was whether the model is also "auto OOA" when hit+wounded by an arrow/bullet/magicmissile/... and KD/stunned? (we played it like this for years, but last time we played Mordheim we started wondering about this...)
It makes sense that in close combat it's easy to smash you hammer right in the middle of your opponents face when he's on the floor uncouncious, effectively putting him OOA in-game (read "dead" in real life). But when shooting with an arrow it's not that much different: shooting at a standing or fallen enemy. For me the "auto OOA" in Hth is from the ability to strike your opponent on the weak spots, but with a ranged attack it doesn't make it necessarily easier to hit your opponent on the weak spots when he's down...
SO, a simple yes or no to the question: "when I hit and wound a KD/stunned opponent with a missile weapon, is the model auto OOA or is there still an injury roll?"


Meister Ostalgie wrote:

Gobbo Freak wrote:
Still no running. It doesn't matter how your enemy is behaving, he's still in 8"
Uhm... no Sir!

2) The 8" mentioned is to be measured as the bird flies. If the enemy model is within 8", but hidden, your own models within 8" of the hidden model can run, observing all the standard movement rules. LoS is irrelevant in these cases. Furthermore, any model
auto-detects enemy models within a range in inches equal to its Initiative. So, most Human models auto-detect within 4", meaning no enemy models can hide in this area. And since the enemy models are instantly un-hidden, members of your Warband cannot run (because they are within 8" of and unhidden unit). Using a Lantern or Torch increases the detection-range by 4", which can be interesting.

OK, thanks! So only a hidden enemy within 8" does NOT prevent you from running.


Meister Ostalgie wrote:
3) From the Rulebook:
Quote :
Henchmen Henchmen typically fall into two groups. There are Henchmen such as the Brethren of the Possessed, Skaven Verminkin and Mercenary Swordsmen. These Henchmen gain experience and become better as time goes by. They are bought in groups of one to five models. The other type of Henchmen are those such as Warhounds and Zombies. These are too dim or too primitive to gain experience. Henchmen may never use any special equipment you acquire during their adventures (unless otherwise noted); only Heroes may do so. Henchmen can include potentially powerful warriors, but Heroes always have an edge over them with their potential to gain extra experience. All Henchmen belong to a Henchmen group, which usually consists of between one and five individuals. Henchmen groups gain experience collectively and gain advances together.

All
you need to know about Henchmen is in the quote above. So there's no maximum on the number of groups, but the maximum number of models per Henchmen group is five.

Yes, that's how we've always played it, but after a while of reading rules on Mordheim you do start to realise that rulings about the same things/subjects can be spread out over different parts in the rulebook, so I was thinking I might have missed something somewhere else. But thanks for the clear-up
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catferret
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PostSubject: Re: 3 rules questions   Wed 9 Dec 2009 - 4:56

Jadex wrote:
SO, a simple yes or no to the question: "when I hit and wound a KD/stunned opponent with a missile weapon, is the model auto OOA or is there still an injury roll?"

No. That rule only applies in Close Combat. (p37 of the Mordheim Rulebook - part of the Close Combat section)
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