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 Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands

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Mortimer
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PostSubject: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 22:40

Somewhat inspired by the Nippon warband by Mr Bretonnia I considered trying out another of the lesser explored nations of the Warhammer world, Ind (A not so subtle parallel to India, at least in location and geography). But I don't have a huge amount of knowledge of medieval Indian warriors, other than the Mahout (War Elephant) which might be abit of over kill in Mordheim scale games Razz

So here is my rough skeleton idea of warriors so far.

HEROES

Rajah
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4
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1
8

Special Rules: Leader

Guru

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4
2
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1
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1
8

Special Rules: Serene (immune to psychology?) Spellcaster (Something akin to prayers over spells)

Spell Ideas so far - Avatar: The Guru is infused with the power of a God of Ind, becoming a might divine being.

Tiger Master

Profile
M
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Ld

4
4
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3
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1
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1
7

Special Rules: Tiger Tamer - tigers can use the tamers leadership, must have a Tiger Master present, etc (similar to Kislev's Tamed Bear).

Retainers (Better Name Pending)
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HENCHMEN

Basic Warriors?

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4
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7

Slaves?

Profile
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WS
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4
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6

Dervish

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M
WS
BS
S
T
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I
A
Ld

4
4
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1
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1
7

Special Rules - ?

Tigers

Profile
M
WS
BS
S
T
W
I
A
Ld

6
4
0
4
4
1
4
2
5

Special Rules - Animals

Pretty skimpy so far, I don't think I'll introduce new skills and only a few pieces of extra equipment (The very least, I want to have 'chakrams' ... I was a Xena fan, sue me). So anyone want to help flesh it out abit more? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 22:52

im total;y on board with this mate, when you have this done we can stick mine together Smile. Ill come up with some ideas tonight, but for minis, here is a good idea;

http://www.artizandesigns.com/index.php

and here

http://www.bearsdenminiatures.com/mughul_india.html
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 23:13

Interesting! Remember to keep it simple, and always kill your darlings. Id have no more than 3 hero types, and beside the elader, only one unique hero. So, Tiger Master could be skipped, if you feel it wont destroy the whole idea, that is. Mostly because I think we have seen beast masters/animal handlers before (and nothing wrong with that), but I think there COULD be smething even more imaginative to find. Now, I am not saying "Remove it, you suck!", im just suggesting, and I am not even saying I am right, as I tend to be wrong quite a lot.

I think I'd make the Dervish into Heroes (0-2). That way, you get a hero choice that has speed and offence (as I gather that is the general idea of these warrior-dancers, yes?)

Skills for Dervish? Well, first off, they would be looking at skills from Combat, Strength and Speed. Their starting Special Rules would be something that has to do with mystic dancing, though, right?

The Retainers, then. What do they do? Are they sorta the Youngbloods?

Slaves in Mordheim are a blas, and my Araby warband has them too. I gave them the rules "Kept in check" which means there can never be more Slaves than other Henchmen in the warband. This will make them even more cheap, but they still wont become a swarm. Also, if they get "Lads got talent" one of them is set free and is removed from the warband.

The Tigers are good, but since a Tiger is pretty darn big and a lot more scary than warhounds, you could easily justify a statistic-bump (+1S, +1W?)

The Chakrams can be exactly like Throwing Daggers, right? (again, trying to keep it simple Smile )

The Gurus spellsw iwll be interesting to see! Smile
A Spell list of Meditations, perhaps? Sorta like... well, an example then:

Meditations
Meditations work in a different way than other spells. They are all done by having the caster pass a characteristic test instead of a difficulty test (representing his Mind, ld, AND body, S T I etc, concentration)

1 - Mind Blank (Ld)
The Guru has learned how to completely empty his mind, even if his body still acts as normal. The Guru has a 4+ ward save vs spells and is immune to Psychology. Roll another Ld test each upkeep phase. If it passes, the spell is still in effect. If it fails, the spell ends, and the caster may try to cast it again in the shooting phase as normal.

2 - Martyrs Pain (T)
The Guru has learned how to cope with all kinds of pain, and can focus his body to keep going on, even if lethally wounded. While this spell is in effect, the Guru can only be taken OOA on a natural 6 (no modifiers, such as rolling a 5 and getting +1), Stunned on a 5, and counts as Knocked Down on a 1-4. Roll another T test each upkeep phase. If it passes, the spell is
still in effect. If it fails, the spell ends, and the caster may try to
cast it again in the shooting phase as normal.

Well, you get the general idea with "spells" based on his own characteristics. He should also have a starting skill that symbolises his control of mind and body evolvment:

"Control of Mind and Body" - The Guru is so self-aware and in control of his being, that he may roll THREE dices when rolling on the Level Advance table, then discard one.

How about this, is it in line with your original idea? (it is, after all, your idea so just scrap my suggestions if you feel they dont appeal to you)
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 23:47

When i saw the idea I thought of something totally different with a bunch of hero's that are representations of hindu gods. But the idea you have is fantastic I can't wait to see more!
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 23:50

I certainly like the ideas of 'mentalist' or 'psychic' powers for the Guru ... that would definitely make them a bit more unique ... Mind over Matter, so good idea Ophel.

The Tiger Master isn't to important no ... it was more the excuse to have tigers (well, if I can't have elephants Wink ), if we can just fluff that they generally trained like Warhounds that'll work for me.

The Dervish can become the hero in place of the Retainer (who was just a 0-2 Witch Hunter sort of fill in) .... is Warrior, Slave and Tiger enough for henchmen?

ChildOfKhorne wrote:
When i saw the idea I thought of something
totally different with a bunch of hero's that are representations of
hindu gods. But the idea you have is fantastic I can't wait to see
more!

Go on, that sounds like an interesting idea, if nothing else, there sounds like theres a Dramaticus Personea in there Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 23:56

Mortimer wrote:
I certainly like the ideas of 'mentalist' or 'psychic' powers for the Guru ... that would definitely make them a bit more unique ... Mind over Matter, so good idea Ophel.

The Tiger Master isn't to important no ... it was more the excuse to have tigers (well, if I can't have elephants Wink ), if we can just fluff that they generally trained like Warhounds that'll work for me.

The Dervish can become the hero in place of the Retainer (who was just a 0-2 Witch Hunter sort of fill in) .... is Warrior, Slave and Tiger enough for henchmen?

Go on, that sounds like an interesting idea, if nothing else, there sounds like theres a Dramaticus Personea in there Smile

Well, you can still have tigers. 0-2 Trained Tigers. These are, after all, trained by some tamer back in Indi, then given as gifts to the Rajah (I think they were oftenr evered as gifts 4-real too). But since they would be stronger than hounds, I thin maximum 2 is enough. Or maybe 1 if you buff him further. Maybe
M: 6
Ws: 4
Bs: 0
S: 5
T: 4
W: 2
I: 5
Ld: 6

Special Rules:
Animal - The Tiger never gain experience.
Cause Fear - The Tiger is big and vicious, and will scare the pants of anyone it sets its predatory eyes upon.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 2:30

I'm not much help when it comes to new rules, but minis I can help with!

http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/INDIA/white.asp thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 5:03

I second the call for mean tigers. It takes a pack of wardogs to fight a tiger. I use tigers as encounters so I give mine skills as well. I do think that Leap and Acrobat are essential and a re-roll to climbing. That said the better a tiger gets the more likely it should be 0-1.

So are you playing in Animosity 4 or is the interest in the East just a coincidence?

http://animositycampaigns.com/joomla/
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 12:17

I have a crazy idea, maybe you can tie the different Hindu gods into Chaos gods?
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 13:46

Da Bank wrote:
I have a crazy idea, maybe you can tie the different Hindu gods into Chaos gods?

Hmmm, not sure, don't really want to upset anyone to much ^_^;

But images of Temple of Doom inspired Chaos Cultists certainly has an appeal. One thing at a time though Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 13:55

Da Bank wrote:
I have a crazy idea, maybe you can tie the different Hindu gods into Chaos gods?

In the Ogre Kingdoms army book, the Brahmir Statue magic item is described as a "wooden effigy of one of the thousand gods worshipped there by man and man-kin alike. For reasons unknown, the four-armed thing holds a particular horror for the worshippers of the Dark Gods."

The gods of Ind are very separate from the Chaos Gods and seem to be great rivals/enemies.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 14:05

Of course the Ind Gods could be a parallel to the Devas and the Chaos Gods a parallel to the Asuras (Demons).

Another Guru spell Idea

Balance (Difficulty 10/Strength - if we go with Ophel's idea)
This spell maybe cast in hand to hand combat, before either warrior resolves any attacks. If successful the Guru gains the WS, S, T and A of the opposing warrior for this round of combat, the enemy warrior in turn gains the WS, S, T and A of the Guru.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 15:38

How about this

serenity - Casting value: unkown

All models (friend and foe) within X" are unaffected by psychology (fear, hatred, frenzy, panic ect)

I recon this is a fun and reasonable one. easy to cast, run up to mr frenzied minotaur and bam Razz

Also, if your making characteristic tests. I assume you have a target they need to reach which they roll 1d6 and add their characteristic right? Because if its just a characteristic check, most of the time it will be too easy.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 15:45

Yeah, I was just keeping that mechanic in mind ... but given the difference in rolls for say ... Strength and Leadership (D6 vs 2D6?) I think perhaps the regular Spell Difficulty will be easier to handle.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 15:49

You could always just make him test on diffrent kinds of dice lol. 3d4+1d6-1d3 Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 15:53

mrbretonnia wrote:
You could always just make him test on diffrent kinds of dice lol. 3d4+1d6-1d3 Razz

Uh, no, was a neat idea, but I think it would become to confusing/unbalancing ... think the Guru will stick with regular Spell Difficulty rolls.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 16:09

Mortimer wrote:
mrbretonnia wrote:
You could always just make him test on diffrent kinds of dice lol. 3d4+1d6-1d3 Razz

Uh, no, was a neat idea, but I think it would become to confusing/unbalancing ... think the Guru will stick with regular Spell Difficulty rolls.

Yup, kinda pushing how silly it could get with my example. All up, its going to have new everything, so a new system really isnt needed I guess.

Also +1 on a nasty bear-like tiger.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 18:54

Here is a more fleshed out version.

IND WARRIORS WARBAND
Choice of Warriors
An Ind Warrior Warband must include a minimum of 3 models. You have 500 Gold Crowns which you can use to recruit your initial warband. Maximum number of warriors in the warband is 15.

Heroes
Rajah: Each Ind Warband must have one Rajah: no more, no less!

Guru: Your warband may include a single Guru.

Dervishes: Your warband may include up to three Dervishes.

Henchmen
Warriors: Any number of models may be Warriors.

Slaves: Your warband may include any number of Slaves as long as there are no more than there are other human members of the warband (Rajah, Guru, Dervishes and Warriors).

Tigers:
Your warband may include up to two Tigers.

Starting Experience
A Rajah starts with 20 experience.

A Guru starts with 8 experience.

Dervishes start with 8 experience.

All Henchmen start with 0 experience.


Combat
Shooting
Academic
Strength
Speed
Rajah
X
X
X
X
X
Guru


X

X
Dervish
X


X
X
IND WARRIOR EQUIPMENT LIST

Hand-to-hand Combat Weapons

Dagger - 1st Free/2 gc
Mace - 3 gc
Axe - 5 gc
Sword - 10 gc
Spear - 10 gc
Double-handed Weapon - 15 gc

Missile Weapons
Short Bow - 5 gc
Bow - 10 gc
Chakram - 15 gc
Handgun - 35 gc

Armour
Light Armour - 20 gc
Shield - 5 gc
Buckler - 5 gc
Helmet - 10 gc

SLAVES EQUIPMENT LIST

Hand-to-hand Combat Weapons
Dagger - 1st Free/2 gc
Club - 3 gc
Axe - 5 gc
Sword - 10 gc
Spear - 10 gc

Missile Weapons
None

Armour
Shield - 5 gc

CHAKRAM
Range: 8"; Strength: As User;
Special Rules: Thrown Weapon, Ricochet

Ricochet: If the warrior scores a hit with the Chakram and even if they don't wound they will hit an additional enemy warrior within 4" of the first on a D6 roll of 6, the Chakram can continue to ricochet as long as you roll a 6 and there is a target within 4". You may only hit a warrior once each in this way.

HEROES

1 Rajah
60 Gold Crowns to hire
Description.

Profile
M
WS
BS
S
T
W
I
A
Ld

4
4
4
3
3
1
4
1
8
Weapons and Armour: A Rajah may be equipped with weapons and armour from the Ind Warrior Equipment list.

SPECIAL RULES
Leader: Any warrior within 6Ē of the Rajah may use his Leadership value when taking Leadership tests.

0-1 Guru
35 Gold Crowns to hire
Description.

Profile
M
WS
BS
S
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W
I
A
Ld

4
2
2
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1
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1
7
Weapons and Armour: A Guru may never be equipped with weapons and armour, but suffers no penalty for fighting unarmed and may carry miscellaneous equipment as normal.

SPECIAL RULES

Wizard: The Guru is a Wizard use spells from the Mentalist Magic list. He starts with a single spell chosen at random from the list.

(May raise the cost and introduce Psychology Immune to him)

0-3 Dervishes
40 Gold Crowns to hire
Description.

Profile
M
WS
BS
S
T
W
I
A
Ld

4
4
3
3
3
1
3
1
7
Weapons and Armour: A Dervish may be equipped with weapons and armour from the Ind Warrior Equipment list.

SPECIAL RULES
Whirling Warrior: In hand to hand combat a Dervish is at -1 to hit.

HENCHMEN

Warriors
25 Gold Crowns to hire
Description.

Profile
M
WS
BS
S
T
W
I
A
Ld

4
3
3
3
3
1
3
1
7
Weapons and Armour: A Warrior may be equipped with weapons and armour from the Ind Warrior Equipment list.

Slaves
15 Gold Crowns to hire
Description.

Profile
M
WS
BS
S
T
W
I
A
Ld

4
2
2
3
3
1
3
1
6
Weapons and Armour: A Slave may be equipped with weapons and armour from the Slave Equipment list.

SPECIAL RULES
Life of Slavery: A Slave may gain experience but if he rolls Ladís got Talent the leader executes the slave and he is removed from the roster. The rest of the group may re-roll their advance.

0-2 Tigers
120 Gold Crowns to hire
Description.

Profile
M
WS
BS
S
T
W
I
A
Ld

4
4
0
5
4
2
4
2
6
Weapons and Armour: Claws, teeth and muscle. A Tiger never uses weapons or armour and suffers no penalty for this.

SPECIAL RULES
Fear

Animal

Jungle Stalker: Tigers may climb obstacles unlike other animals. They also have the leap and acrobatic skills.

(I'm uncertain of the price of the price and limit on the Tigers)
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 19:06

My main gripe is with the dervish. Doing a google on them i find that the "whirling" is just a turkish ritual. Could you perhaps give a little description on the mordheim fluff for each of the choices?

Also in regards to chakram, they seem like throwing knives, but for the same price they are better? The only place I can find a refrence to chakram "bouncing" regularly is in wonder woman and xena.

Looking good so far choice wise though Smile

EDIT: first thing I notice about tigers is they dont have the "animal" special rule.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 19:17

mrbretonnia wrote:
My main gripe is with the dervish. Doing a google on them i find that the "whirling" is just a turkish ritual. Could you perhaps give a little description on the mordheim fluff for each of the choices?

True, but its very much the best I could think of to make them abit different, sure I can fluff it in when I do the description (ritual battle dances learned from the Tribes of Araby?).

Quote :
Also in regards to chakram, they seem like throwing knives, but for the same price they are better? The only place I can find a refrence to chakram "bouncing" regularly is in wonder woman and xena.

Yeah, it was the only thing I could think of to make it different, it looses the ability to benefit from Knife Fighter though, perhaps that should be mentioned? Or I just make them throwing knives (bleh, abit dull but ok).

Quote :

Looking good so far choice wise though Smile

EDIT: first thing I notice about tigers is they dont have the "animal" special rule.

Between 'Fear' and 'Jungle Stalker'
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 19:23

Ritual battle dances sound awesome, but I have another idea, perhaps replace them with those exotic female belly dancers who use swords. They are often seen as being assassin like warriors in the media. bump to I4 and keep the whirling special rule and they would be very themey. Considering you have a rajah it would make sense for him to have a few consorts with him to "entertain him" over men similar to monks. Right now it feels really half way between a princely (rajah and tigers) and a monastery feel (because of the dervish and guru). This is purely my feeling on the matter, and I dont know how much you want to keep the dervish in there.

linkey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_dance
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 19:50

Why does the chakram get ricochet? Chakrams tend to get quite stuck in the target after being thrown, hence why the user would carry so many about his person. They'd have them on arms, hanging from the waist and on top of their head so they'd have ready access to a new one. The traditional chakram fighting style is very impressive to watch.

Or are these magical ones that return to the thrower and I've missed the point?
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 19:55

No no, I was going on a more fantastical approach (and I used to watch to much Xena).

So Chakram = Throwing Knives?

Ok ...
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 20:14

Mortimer wrote:
(and I used to watch to much Xena).

LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Fri 27 Nov 2009 - 20:46

Seeing a lot of change here, and I must say I really like this warband.

Though, if I may:

Acrobat for Tigers is, IMO, nothing I'd care about. A Tiger jumping about and twisting through the air, maube making a final roll on the ground before rushing on just doesn't sit right with me. So, instead of a parkour tiger, just bump up his I (5?). The Leap skill, however, is perfect! Alongside causing fear, these cats will be mean!

The Dervishes are fine, and I'd keep them. Belly dancers with swords seems awefully strange in comparison. But, ppl are right, we need to fluff it up a little. I like your suggestion of having been taught the dances from araby, but, we could also just go with the gods idea of yours Smile

"The Dervish are not only custodians of the many gods of man, they are also holy-warriors, combining their ritualistic skills with great combat prowess. That way, when a Dervish enters battle, their dancing give praise to the gods as the Dervish's enemies are sacrificed in blood. A Rajah often surrounds himself with these holy warriors, as they would sacrifice their own lives for him, their living god amongst humans."

This makes the idea of the Rajah seem as an avatar of one of the many gods, which, IMO, doesn't sounds all that bad.

Concerning magic:
Balance seems rather peculiar, but might actually work. Smile
And yes, you could scrap the idea of basing the Dufficulty on characteristic rolls, but that idea also means that any "spells" cast will only affect the Guru (he is a master of self-control after all, not others). But going for a normal spellcaster, I agree that it might make things too complicated, so go for a normal spell list with normal diff if that is the case.
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PostSubject: Re: Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands   Today at 23:06

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Help me Brainstorm: Ind Warbands
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