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 Charlatan/Rogue warband?

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PostSubject: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 3:55

I wonder if anyone knows if tehre are rules for a Charlatan/Rogue/Gypsy warband around? The thought of vagabonds with stray dogs and charlatan sorcerers with all manner if trinkets strangely appeal to me. If not, anyone has nay ideas for a write-up???
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 4:25

heroes

1 Master of the shadows - leader
0-1 knife - assassin style character
0-1 hedge mage - outlawed mages, use lesser magic and fit in well
0-2 scoundrals - kids who are picked off the street by the warband

henchmen

0-5 snipers - ranged support unit (like marksmen)
0+ rogues - basic warrior unit

Basicly the warband is a bunch of misfits and outlaws who band together as an extended family. These scoundrals who would normaly trust none, put their faith in others in their situation knowing that only those people know what its like to suffer like they do.

I recon it would be fun to have a "family" of rogues and outlaws working together for their own survival. Throw in some special rules about pick pocketing, being outlaws and your set Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 4:56

Hochland Bandits from the Nemesis Crown supplement may fit your requirements.

The Huckster has been suggested as overpowered in the past and I think suggested changes were made either on this forum or the Specialist Games Forums.

Maybe somebody will be able to point you in the right direction.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 9:32

mrbretonnia wrote:
heroes

1 Master of the shadows - leader
0-1 knife - assassin style character
0-1 hedge mage - outlawed mages, use lesser magic and fit in well
0-2 scoundrals - kids who are picked off the street by the warband

henchmen

0-5 snipers - ranged support unit (like marksmen)
0+ rogues - basic warrior unit

Basicly the warband is a bunch of misfits and outlaws who band together as an extended family. These scoundrals who would normaly trust none, put their faith in others in their situation knowing that only those people know what its like to suffer like they do.

I recon it would be fun to have a "family" of rogues and outlaws working together for their own survival. Throw in some special rules about pick pocketing, being outlaws and your set Smile

I dont really think that is fluff enough for me. Master of Shadows? Doesn't sound too much Warhammer to me. Well, maybe the Shadow Elves Warband, but that is pretty far from the idea. Also assassins doesn't really feel right either. I would like the warband to be more... well, like family of tight knit individuals.

The Hochland Bandits are, IMHO, really really stinky. They dont feel fluffy at all, and seems awefullt broken.

How about something like this (as it seems it must be hand-made)

Heroes:

1: Gypsy Master
The Gypsy Master is the head of the family, the one who settles all differences within the family and leads the troupe through the lands in search of fortune or another place to stay and trick the local populace.

(Stats like a merc captain? Skills?)

0-1: Charlatan
The Charlatan is a master conman and trickster. The Charlatan may actually have some knowledge of the arcane, but what skills he possesses are mostly used to trick people from handing over their gold. When not seeing into the future for naive young girls ("I see a mysterious dark man, who will sweep you off your feet!"), they delve into the mystic arts, creating handmade pendulums and crystal balls that actually might contain an essence of REAL magic...

(Psychology based spells? Skills and stats?)

0-3: Vagabonds
The Vagabonds are amongst the best of the familys scoundrels, well versed in both subterfuge and ambushes. They aren't killers, but if the local militia decides the gypsies have spent their welcome, they will use their fighting abilities to defend the family, using all manner of devices and strange items to lure the enemy.

(Stats like Champions? Or maybe Warrior w +1 I? Skills? I was thinking they got access to special items???)

Henchmen:

Any: Gypsies
These are the members of the large family of rogues, and they all are well versed in some of the trades of tricksters, rogues and subterfuge. Some of them are dancers and acrobats, who can make money legally, while others are aspiring pick pocketers or burglars. Whatever the case, they are tightly knit together and the family bonds are strong.

(Stats as youngbloods but better Ld?)

0-5: Stray Dogs
very often, packs of stray dogs follow the gypsies around, and are often fed by the gypsies. Allthough the life on the road is hard, these hounds are loyal to their masters, even though they are often scrawnier and not as strong as a properly trained warhound.

(Stats like Wardogs, but -1 S and -1 Ld?)
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 9:46

Gypsies in the Warhammer World are called "Strigany" and are shunned and hunted for their associations to the Strigoi Vampires (though not all Strigany are servants of vampires).

Besides that point, I think you're on the right track for your list, though I'd probably put the whole band (minus the charlatan) at -1 to locate rare items as people would be REALLY unwilling to trade with them. You might also consider seriously buffing them up and making it so they're hated by everyone - I think that would accurately reflect the roughness of a much-persecuted Strigany band.

Real-world Roma (the PC term for "Gypsies") are well-known in popular culture for palm reading and fortune telling, so adding a (female!?) fortune-teller/wizard might be a good idea. Maybe try the following rule:

Palm Reader - The Fortune-Teller may, before each skirmish, read the fortune of one of the warband's heroes. Roll a D6:
1: Bad Omen - such is the warrior's fright that he misses the battle.
2-3: No effect
4-5: The warrior may reroll a single die per game turn.
6: The warrior may reroll a single die per game turn AND may force his opponents to reroll results on the injury table against him (though he must accept the second result).

Good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 10:01

CygnusMaximus wrote:
Gypsies in the Warhammer World are called "Strigany" and are shunned and hunted for their associations to the Strigoi Vampires (though not all Strigany are servants of vampires).

Besides that point, I think you're on the right track for your list, though I'd probably put the whole band (minus the charlatan) at -1 to locate rare items as people would be REALLY unwilling to trade with them. You might also consider seriously buffing them up and making it so they're hated by everyone - I think that would accurately reflect the roughness of a much-persecuted Strigany band.

Real-world Roma (the PC term for "Gypsies") are well-known in popular culture for palm reading and fortune telling, so adding a (female!?) fortune-teller/wizard might be a good idea. Maybe try the following rule:

Palm Reader - The Fortune-Teller may, before each skirmish, read the fortune of one of the warband's heroes. Roll a D6:
1: Bad Omen - such is the warrior's fright that he misses the battle.
2-3: No effect
4-5: The warrior may reroll a single die per game turn.
6: The warrior may reroll a single die per game turn AND may force his opponents to reroll results on the injury table against him (though he must accept the second result).

Good luck!

Thanks, great suggestions. The Fortune-Teller you describe is exactly how I thought of the Charlatan, so I guess I will go with that! BTW; how about a spell list based on random spells based on Tarot Cards?

And of course, Strigany (I knew that deep inside, promise! Smile )

And yes, being hated /hate is such a strong word... lets say disliked, instead), the Strigany should, as you said, have -1 to finding items.

Also, the Burn the Witch rule will apply to the Charlatan, even if the spells are tricks, and maybe not allways of the arcane.

I think having all other warbands "Hating" them is too much, but what else in the same line of thought can be done? Suggestions?

Buffing the warband up is a problem, as I dont see them as fighters, BUT, instead they will have access to some pretty good items. At least the heroes.
Cheap Rabbits Feet, Lucky Charms and Holy/Unholy Relics, but also some custom made items such as Smoke Bombs (once again, suggestions?)
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 10:02

Cool stuff, CygnusMaximus! I will steal some of your suggestions for my Gierburg project. The Syr are gonna love this stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 11:27

You're right that universal hatred might be a bit harsh... hmm. I think you could do without it - since only the Witch Hunters would REALLY be after them, the other Old Worlders just look on them as vermin (and not everybody hates Skaven).

I really like the Tarot card idea, though you're somewhat limited with only six spells. I like the idea of various charms and curses - nothing too overtly "magical", but a definite help/hindrance to their targets.
A charm that allows a model to scale a surface automatically, for example - or a curse that will cause a model to automatically fall from a precarious position. Things that wouldn't SEEM to be magic (to the untrained, at least) but that are certainly supernatural.
You might even consider making them usable out of the normal turn sequence - so if an enemy model attempts to leap over a gap within X" of the Charlatan, you can test to make them fail automatically.

Hmm... I may have to have a go at making a Strigany band of my own! Lots to think about...
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 12:04

How's this? - I'm not too great at assigning casting values or costs, so feel free to correct those.

Tarot Cards - 30+2D6gc Rare 8 (Charlatan Only)

A Charlatan can use the Tarot cards to reroll the die when telling the fortune of a warband member. The second result stands.

Curses and Charms of the Strigany

1- Wanderer's Luck Difficulty 7
Select a friendly model within 6" - if the casting is successful, the model may reroll all failed characteristic tests and to-hit rolls until the beginning of the player's next turn.
2 - Curse of Strigos Difficulty 7
This spell targets a single enemy model within line of sight and 8" of the caster. If successful, the target must reroll any successful dice rolls during the following turn!
3 - Paranoia As "Lure of Chaos" (see the Chaos Rituals)
4 - Wanderlust Difficulty 5
The Strigany are known for their nomadic lifestyle and the ease with which they travel. This spell affects a single friendly model within 8". The model's Movement and Initiative values are effectively increased by 1. Roll a D6 at the beginning of each following turn - on a 1-2 the model's characteristics return to normal. Note - the model's characteristics will automatically return to normal following the game - you cannot permanently increase a model's movement and initiative with this spell!
5 - Charisma Difficulty 6
This spell targets one friendly model. Any living enemies must pass a Ld test to shoot at or attack the model. this spell lasts until the beginning of the player's next turn. Additionally, the charlatan may attempt to cast this spell on a single hero during the post-battle sequence. If successful, the hero may attempt to locate a single rare item replacing the usual -1 penalty with a +1 bonus.
6 - Touch of the Strigoi - Difficulty 9
All Strigany are mindful of the curse of their ancient rulers and some research the arcane rites of their ancient homeland. This spell may only be cast on the Charlatan. The Charlatan gains +1 S and +1 A for the following round. Additionally, each wound the Charlatan causes in the following close combat adds 1 wound his profile (this may increase the Charlatan's W above their starting limit). This profile increase is only temporary and is lost at the end of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Wed 25 Nov 2009 - 23:53

CygnusMaximus wrote:


Tarot Cards - 30+2D6gc Rare 8 (Charlatan Only)

A Charlatan can use the Tarot cards to reroll the die when telling the fortune of a warband member. The second result stands.

Perfect. I'd say its done and done. Maybe Rare 7, though, as they DO have -1 to locate rare items.

CygnusMaximus wrote:

Curses and Charms of the Strigany

1- Wanderer's Luck Difficulty 7
Select a friendly model within 6" - if the casting is successful, the model may reroll all failed characteristic tests and to-hit rolls until the beginning of the player's next turn.

Really good idea for a spell. And I think it is balanced as well. The short range of it means that the Charlatan cant act as a DeusEx Machina from half the board away, and there is allways the possibility of him not making the dif roll.

CygnusMaximus wrote:

2 - Curse of Strigos Difficulty 7
This spell targets a single enemy model within line of sight and 8" of the caster. If successful, the target must reroll any successful dice rolls during the following turn!

This one is, in my mind, a little to good for a Dif of 7. Say 8, and we can call it a day. (I have always been of the opinion that when creating a warband, have everything be a little more difficult and the warriors a little weaker, THEN make it better after playtesting if it turns out the warband is too weak/bad. Fluff first Smile )

CygnusMaximus wrote:

3 - Paranoia As "Lure of Chaos" (see the Chaos Rituals)

Lets have some fun, instead Smile

3 - The Evil Eye - Difficulty 7 (Actuall Romani spell, btw)
The Charlatan draws up a pentagram with a picture of the Evil Eye inside it. Despite its name, this charm is of protective nature, and is a very strong symbol to the Strihany, who firmly believes in its protective abilities.
The caster and all friendly models within 6" will be immune to fear, and have a 4+ ward save against magic until the casters next upkeep phase. NOTE: If a warrior then moves out of the spells range, even after it was cast, it does no longer affect him/her.

CygnusMaximus wrote:

4 - Wanderlust Difficulty 5
The Strigany are known for their nomadic lifestyle and the ease with which they travel. This spell affects a single friendly model within 8". The model's Movement and Initiative values are effectively increased by 1. Roll a D6 at the beginning of each following turn - on a 1-2 the model's characteristics return to normal. Note - the model's characteristics will automatically return to normal following the game - you cannot permanently increase a model's movement and initiative with this spell!

Really like this one, but its too much in line with the buffing of Wanderers Luck IMHO. I'd loose one of them and make another offensive spell. Maybe a magic missile? Hm, maybe change of of them for this one:

Ancestral Bones/Blood Bones - Difficulty 8
The Charlatan empties a bag of rune-covered bones in his palm. As he mutters a spell, the bones seem to come alive and is flung at the enemy, digging into his body as the blood-drinking curses on the bones feed on his flesh.
The spell has a range of 8" and targets the first enemy in its path that is within LoS. The spell causes 1d3 S3 hits. In any subsequent turns, the target takes as many hits again, but at -1 S (Ie S2, then S1) until the damage is taken to 0, and the spell dissipates. Only take armour saves for the first turn. NOTE: If a hit is removed due to armour saves, the target will not take damage from that source in the subsequent turns.


CygnusMaximus wrote:

5 - Charisma Difficulty 6
This spell targets one friendly model. Any living enemies must pass a Ld test to shoot at or attack the model. this spell lasts until the beginning of the player's next turn. Additionally, the charlatan may attempt to cast this spell on a single hero during the post-battle sequence. If successful, the hero may attempt to locate a single rare item replacing the usual -1 penalty with a +1 bonus.

This one is great, and as the enemy can ignore the spell if they pass a Ld test, I think the difficulty is fine. Also, the post-battle effect is also a great way to utilise this spell.


CygnusMaximus wrote:

6 - Touch of the Strigoi - Difficulty 9
All Strigany are mindful of the curse of their ancient rulers and some research the arcane rites of their ancient homeland. This spell may only be cast on the Charlatan. The Charlatan gains +1 S and +1 A for the following round. Additionally, each wound the Charlatan causes in the following close combat adds 1 wound his profile (this may increase the Charlatan's W above their starting limit). This profile increase is only temporary and is lost at the end of the game.

This sorta transforms the Charlatan into a mini-strigoi? I like it. The whole feel of the warband should be based around folklore and old tales, just like the Strigoi curse. I'd say this is a keeper as well.

I gotta say, Cygnys Max. my inspiration is really flourishing, much thanks to you Smile

Now, a warband with not as strong fighters as others can be reinforced by some special skill table. And as I really think the Strigany have such a colourful culture and very different ways of life than the rest of the humans, I'd say it is a MUST. I have some ideas, but I do not wish to make this into a hostile takeover. Suggestions???
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 3:41

Yay! Gypsies!
Well you have only two types of henchmen. Why don't you add a wagon? I can't imagine a wandering gypsy group without a wagon. No special abilities as the carnival ones. Just a standard transport wagon, whit at most an "aura of bad luck" around it in a few "s. It's a too magic-wise option perhaps.

I strongly suggest you to rename Vagabonds to Wanderers or Scoundrels.

Your magic chart is very unique! Maybe change paranoia to evil eye.
I don't really like ancestral bones at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 6:15

ObsidianLord wrote:
Yay! Gypsies!
Well you have only two types of henchmen. Why don't you add a wagon? I can't imagine a wandering gypsy group without a wagon. No special abilities as the carnival ones. Just a standard transport wagon, whit at most an "aura of bad luck" around it in a few "s. It's a too magic-wise option perhaps.

I strongly suggest you to rename Vagabonds to Wanderers or Scoundrels.

Your magic chart is very unique! Maybe change paranoia to evil eye.
I don't really like ancestral bones at all.

Yeah, I also was thinking it needs more henchmen... suggestions?

Well, a coach or something will really mess things up for us who hasn't got LOADS of money to spend or are very skilled with green-stuff, unless it has some REAL impact to the warband. No, in this case, I really think less is more.

Concerning the name change, feel free to explain why? I mean, I welcome any suggestions, but if it is just a matter of personal taste, I dont plan to change it.

The Evil Eye spell IS good isnt it Smile And the Ancestral Bones were just an attempt at creating some kind of Magic Missile. Again; Please explain what you dont like about it.

I can take all kinds of critique, but only constructive critique is of any help Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 7:20

I don't think you need to rename Vagabond. Vagabond means wanderer/vagrant/rover so fits fine.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 7:27

catferret wrote:
I don't think you need to rename Vagabond. Vagabond means wanderer/vagrant/rover so fits fine.

yeah, aggreed, and that is why I chose that name to begin with Smile

Now, there us also the question on what equipment one should have.
I have heard mentioned that Strigany uses crossbows and blunderbusses (a mix of normal ranged and blackpowder that is). I think that ranged weapons should be crossbow, handgun, pistol (NOT duelling pistols) and throwing daggers. Close combat weapons should be the basics: Sword, Club/Quarterstaff, Axe, Spear, maybe a halberd, maybe a morningstar, and double-handed weapons. Armour should be limited to Light, helmet, shield and buckler IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 9:33

Opheliate - if anyone is "taking over", it's me - and I apologize for commandeering your thread; it's just such a great idea!!

I love the Evil Eye spell ; my creativity was lacking after a long day at work, and you filled that in quite nicely.

I agree that "ancestral bones" doesn't quite seem to fit the "is it tircks or magic?" feel that you were going for. Perhaps if a nearby model with a missile weapon had it "enhanced" by the bones? I like the idea, but think it needs a little fine-tuning.

And while I'm not the best modeler, I am 110% behind them having a cart entry in their list. Not something that is game-winning or hugely important to their success, but something that makes a nice option for those who really want to make a fluffy Strigany band.

And every time somebody mentions gypsies, I can't help but think of a thick-moustached man toting a blunderbuss - so please add those to your weapon list (besides, they're great for intimidation factor).

Now I have to find some good "Strigany" models/bits - because this is all too good to pass up.

Again, great idea - I'd really like to see this turn into a finished warband so keep posting your thoughts!
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PostSubject: Re: Charlatan/Rogue warband?   Thu 26 Nov 2009 - 9:43

CygnusMaximus wrote:
Opheliate - if anyone is "taking over", it's me - and I apologize for commandeering your thread; it's just such a great idea!!

I love the Evil Eye spell ; my creativity was lacking after a long day at work, and you filled that in quite nicely.

I agree that "ancestral bones" doesn't quite seem to fit the "is it tircks or magic?" feel that you were going for. Perhaps if a nearby model with a missile weapon had it "enhanced" by the bones? I like the idea, but think it needs a little fine-tuning.

And while I'm not the best modeler, I am 110% behind them having a cart entry in their list. Not something that is game-winning or hugely important to their success, but something that makes a nice option for those who really want to make a fluffy Strigany band.

And every time somebody mentions gypsies, I can't help but think of a thick-moustached man toting a blunderbuss - so please add those to your weapon list (besides, they're great for intimidation factor).

Now I have to find some good "Strigany" models/bits - because this is all too good to pass up.

Again, great idea - I'd really like to see this turn into a finished warband so keep posting your thoughts!

No no no, your NOT taking anything over Smile I would WELCOME a joint effort on this one, truth be told.

Right, a Cart then, but would that do? Pulled by horses, it could act as a Mobile Base of sorts, where the models can fire their weapons from, crossbows even, even if they moved (the horses moved, that is). But maybe that is all. That way, it shoulc count as a special equipment choice, right?

And yes, the bones spell was quite improvised, but at least you explain why it doesn't fit Smile

Well, any suggestions, then? As I said, id love to make a joint effort on this one!
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