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 [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!

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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Wed 30 Sep 2009 - 23:35

Today I am pleased to present you something extra special: Don Haney, creator of the resplendent Lu Shang conversion, which won him the 2nd place at the 2002 Chicago Golden Demon, recently got into contact with me. He noticed that his model was featured in the BTB gallery and that the original link to his article, where he describes the process he went through assembling and painting the model, was no longer working online. Don has kindly revised and reformatted the entire article and it is now available as an exclusive download from the website to fans of Mordheim and BTB.

I am especially delighted to present you his article, because it was his work that originally inspired me back then to create my Battle Monks warband for Mordheim.

Happy reading!


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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Thu 1 Oct 2009 - 0:18

Awesome article. Don really explained his thinking about the model well. Very well done.
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sat 3 Oct 2009 - 3:03

A nice article about a cool conversion. I really like his explanations about the sense of movement he achieved with the mini.
And i find it curious that a model of a chaos warlord (who doubtlessly raids / fights against Cathay regularly) inspired you to create a "good defenders of Cathay" type warband .
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sat 3 Oct 2009 - 4:41

Untitled StationeryI wondered how many folk noticed how Don Laney is oddly similar to Lon Chaney...


Quote :
And i find it curious that a model of a chaos warlord (who doubtlessly raids / fights against Cathay regularly) inspired you to create a "good defenders of Cathay" type warband.

Lu Shang looks quite the indulgent Chaos marauder warlord, favoured of Shornaal no doubt about it. Lu is steeped heavily enough in excess that he won't resort to the same desperate habits & rituals as the minions of his Hung tribe, the Dreaded Wo.

This wicked fiend is a prime example of what happens when men from the East lose their humanity! Props to Cianty for developing such a characterful look for his Battle Monks of Cathay warband, the celestial nemesis of Lu Shang.

Regards,

Stuart.

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Fri 23 Oct 2009 - 14:54

The Campaign Team at Da Warpath is hosting their annual online campaign starting Oct. 31st. This year's endeavor is set in Cathay, so I set them up with a link to BTB as Mordheim is a staple of online campaigns. Their efforts can be seen here:

http://animositycampaigns.com/joomla/
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Fri 23 Oct 2009 - 15:00

That's cool! ... I guess... scratch I must confess that I have no clue how that Animosity stuff works... Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Wed 3 Feb 2010 - 12:50

Hi, all!I play for some time in Mordheim. Also, almost from the beginning of BtB. I was thinking about a Maneater warband, and I found some not clearly written rule about Gnoblar Fighter.If he is a Claimed Gnoblar or not? He is listed in Cathyan Equipment. He has his own stats, like Movement & so on. If he is a Claimed Gnoblar, then he counts to the limit of Gnoblars per hero. But then his stats like M, T & so on have no meaning. If he is not a Claimed Gnoblar: - is there a limit of Gnoblar Fighters? Do they count as equipment, or warriors? - do they have their own models? - can they die if they are equipment?
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Wed 3 Feb 2010 - 14:07

Hello and welcome, anaron!

Gnoblar Fighters (as found in the equipment section) follow the same rules as Warhounds (see miscellaneous equipment in the core rulebook). This means that the number of Gnoblar Fighters is restricted to the number of warriors in your warband like other models. Still, they are equipment that must be assigned to a Hero who owns that Gnoblar.

Gnoblars are in no way related to claimed gnoblars (note that the Fighters can also be used by Chaos Dwarves).

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Wed 3 Feb 2010 - 14:45

Thank you for fast response :)Yes, I forgot totally about Wardogs, too much play with non-human warbands from nemesis crown and btb Smile Now everything becomes clear Wink
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Tue 16 Feb 2010 - 0:15

It's again me Smile This time, I have a question about the fire rules. I and my gaming group had a strange situation in our last game.
We were playing multiplayer scenario with 3 warbands. One of them was band of Reiklanders, the other of Dwarf Rangers and Restless Dead with Bone Giant. Reiklanders won previous battle and had good income, that they spend on 3x Fire Arrows for their heroes with longbows. At the start of the game, such situation happened. Dwarfs moved closer to one of the building with their warband, trying to pass through him to move more to center of battle. Then Reiklanders moved their heroes 4", shooted in the building that was 29" of them, didn't made their "to Hit" roll, because they don't have, with their 3 fire arrows their set on fire building that was 8" wide and on the other side of this building there were dwarfs in 1" of building's wall. Then was the Restless Dead turn and testing fire in the building (3 rolled) and the Dwarfs turn, with roll 5 (+1 from previous turn gave 6). Suddenly, it was all over.
Dwarfs couldn't do anything, because fire spread to fast, on their turn of action they could only take rout. They suffered on each model D3 S2 hits, and after this another D3 S3 hits. Models that didn't went out of action, where knocked down or stunned, with no hope for fast getting out from those 1" from building set on fire.Restless Dead had hard time, because Reiklanders with their longbows were setting everything on fire - another building and all forests. It forced slow moving undead to take route that was taking a lot of time and gived Reiklanders a lot of oportunities to shoot at them. Restless Dead sent some low cost models to the path and when they were killed in half way, just routed.
After this battle Fire Rules seemed to us as something overpowered. There are warbands that can''t use Fire Arrows. Testing each player round buildings on fire seems to good in one on one play. In multiplayer, it' just too fast. Model throwing a torch if he is in 2" of building/forest risk in multiplayer quick death, before he will get his turn to move away. Also, chance on setting something on fire seems to be too low. With weapons such as longbows, setting forest on fire from really large distance is really easy. Shouldn't chances of setting on fire be one step harder (4+ changes to 5+). Some "to Hit" roll requied, that a model with BS 3 after moving and shooting on long distance didn't hit automatically? And last thing - shouldn't fire testing were in turn of player, that set on fire building/forest? In multiplayer scenarios getting close flammable things is quick death for model, and forest sections/buildings shouldn't be avoided at all cost, but used for tactical actions...
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Tue 16 Feb 2010 - 1:25

Hi!

Firstly note that the rules were taken from the article in Fanatic Issue #1 and we didn't want to change the rules too much. However, this doesn't mean that there isn't room for adjustment and improvement by tweaking a few numbers here and there. Funnily in our games we never found the rules to be that unfair (although I do agree with your impression) because we either didn't roll as high as your Dwarf player did and because the rules were mostly only applied in the Siege! scenario where players knew to stay away from the buildings that were to be set on fire. Anyways, I'm happy to read about your feedback, so let's get to it!

I think it all comes down to this: The +1 per previous turn is straight out unfair in multiplayer games. As you noted it isn't that bad in two player games (where we have the most experience with the rules) but in multiplayer games it means that warbands might not have a chance to move out of a burning area. I can totally see that as unfair. My suggestion would be to change "turn" to "round". It is an easy fix that doesn't mess with any major aspect of the rules while toning down the damage factor significantly.

About the chances of setting a building on fire: Do you even have wooden buildings? I mean true wooden shacks. Anything else should qualify as a stone building or a mix, so it could be set on fire on a 5+/6+ only. Chances for that are not too high I think. Also fire arrows cost a lot and unless they really do help the warband win the scenario they just cost a lot of money. If you know your enemy uses fire arrows you can stay away from buildings, which may not be what you want to do, but it makes them waste their arrows. Also you should factor this in when placing the scenery before the game. If you face a player than is likely to use fire arrows then make sure to put the buildings where they may not harm you as much and place something like rock sections or statues so that you can use those for cover.

By the way, do you use the weather rules and random happenings? Chances of weather conditions preventing anything from being set on fire are not too small and neglecting them obviously tilts the balance towards the firestarters. I guess we need an occult Cathayan or Norse shaman Hired Sword who can perform rain dances... Smile

Lastly, I think that using Fire Arrows against Dwarf warbands is a great idea. With their low movement they are very vulnerable to burning scenery so this is a cool strategy. In fact, Fire Arrows are probably most useful against shooty warbands as they tend to hide in houses and play snipers whereas more aggressive warbands will move around or quickly pass buildings. It is a good strategy to fight dwarfs and reiklanders this way (even if used by them themselves) so I wouldn't want to destroy this "option" in general. Still the rules shouldn't be unfair either, of course!

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Tue 16 Feb 2010 - 1:55

Again, thanks for fast response!

I agree that changing turn to round would fix those issues.

We thought, that if you read fluff about how Cathyan Borderlands look - peasant huts, houses on sticks over lakes etc. that there should be no more then one, largest building considered as stone building. Just in our imagination it fit better to poor, dangerous area where there ale only few really hard building build with stone. Fire Arrows cost a lot, because they are one-use. But in special cases as in the example that I mentioned, it can give good income (we played Wyrdtsone Hunt scenario), good experience and campaign points. Of course in other situations it won't help so much Smile That's why it is hard to place buildings/forest safe Smile We have tendencies in our group to place shards in center of swamps, villagers to talk (traces to emprise) in higher parts of buildings etc. And there is alway someone with a torch to throw Smile

Yes, we play with weather rules and random happenings, no need for rain dances Smile

Well, using them against undead who can't run or masses of goblins with their animosity rule (Whot did u say? I wont stay on fire?) is also a good idea.
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Tue 16 Feb 2010 - 10:46

Yes, I agree on the wooden shacks of those isolated Cathayan swamp dwellings. But even there some would be made of stone I guess.

Also you could consider fighting fire with fire: Set the buildings/forests you want to pass by on fire before you get close, wait until they are burned down and then continue your way...

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Tue 16 Feb 2010 - 11:07

Hmm... this seems strange, I thought that forest burn all the time, they cannot be burned down like buildings and they don't use their table. Besides burned buildings counts as impassable terrain, so this don't solve anything Sad  Just changing when to test "what happens with burning things" will delay chances for fast killing without time to react.

Besides, game must be tough and giving more opportunities and tactics to use Smile One will be running with fire arrows, other with poisoned "weapons" on Bone Giant, the other will hire Roadwarden to clean the mess Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Tue 16 Feb 2010 - 12:17

Well, once the piece is burned down you will no longer take damage for moving nearby so then you can move along savely.

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 4:10

cianty wrote:
Today I am pleased to present you something extra special: Don Haney, creator of the resplendent Lu Shang conversion, which won him the 2nd place at the 2002 Chicago Golden Demon, recently got into contact with me. He noticed that his model was featured in the BTB gallery and that the original link to his article, where he describes the process he went through assembling and painting the model, was no longer working online. Don has kindly revised and reformatted the entire article and it is now available as an exclusive download from the website to fans of Mordheim and BTB.

Hey cianty, this dosn't appear to be working no mores or maybe its just my computer. Whenj i click the link it dosnt open in adobe acrobat like the other downloads do. It just comes up with a blank page.

I wanna see Don's awesome chinese soldier thingys!!
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 6:10

Hmm... I just checked and it works fine. Maybe the server had some temporary problems?

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Mon 29 Mar 2010 - 8:11

I am sorry to post a topic which maybe is already answered somewhere else but if it is - I do not find it.

I am looking for detailed information about some items mentioned in the 'Spoils of War' chapter of BTB.
In the price list are some unknown miscellaneous items and some mounts&animals listed like 'Rabbit's Foot', 'Tarot Cards', 'Warhorn' or 'Wyrdstone Pendulum' or 'Cold One' or 'Chaos Steed'. Where can I get information about these items?
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Mon 29 Mar 2010 - 11:00

There are two articles that introduce new items to Mordheim: Opulent Goods and Ye Old Curiousity Shoppe. Both were originally released in Town Cryer Magazine and later re-published in the Mordheim Annual. You can download the Annual from http://tabletopgeeks.com/downloads/. You can also find the referenced items (plus some other weird experimental stuff) on Mordheimer's Master Equiment List.

For German Readers:
Die Opulenten Waren sind damals noch im White Dwarf erschienen und auch der Curiousity Shoppe Artikel ist in einer grauenhaft verstümmelten Version später im deutschen White Dwarf erschienen. Falls du über die deutschen Regeln stolperst ist ein Vergleich mit den Originalregeln wert, da die deutschen manchmal fehlerhaft sind. Krassestes Beispiel sind die Goblins der Orks & Goblin-Bande: Im Original können Goblins keine Helden werden, sammeln aber Erfahrung und werden stärker (2 Attacken x 2 durch Waaargh-Pilze, +1 Stärke plus Kette = Monster-Fanatics!), in der deutschen Version hingegen dürfen die Goblins überhaupt keine Erfahrung sammeln.

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Tue 30 Mar 2010 - 0:23

Danke schön :-)
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Thu 14 Oct 2010 - 5:10

Alright, the new updated and corrected version of the Border Town Burning supplement is only a few days away. If you have any questions, comments, errata-type-of-things that you would not like to see missed, please post them now so we can warrant inclusion. Another revised edition of the supplement is very unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future.

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sat 16 Oct 2010 - 11:35

I've you've fixed the images overlapping the texts, I've nothing to change Smile looking forward to it though, so I can print me some more pages! haha
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sat 16 Oct 2010 - 12:39

Ezekiel wrote:
I've you've fixed the images overlapping the texts, I've nothing to change Smile looking forward to it though, so I can print me some more pages! haha

I hope I didn't miss anything this time around... Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Border Town Burning - 2nd edition - Out Now!   Sat 16 Oct 2010 - 16:33

The second edition of the Border Town Burning supplement for Mordheim is out now! The revised and updated version incorporates a number of corrections and clarifications that were brought to us by the many gamers that have been playing with these rules during the last one and a half years since the initial release of this all original fan-made supplement. For more information visit the website:
http://bordertownburning.de.vu/

Also, with the BTB website being as it is we will move on to blogger.com to maintain a blog about our new Mordheim stuff, which will eventually result in an all new supplement for Mordheim. Check it out at:
http://libermalefic.blogspot.com/

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 17 Oct 2010 - 10:43

Just down-loaded it - thanks!
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