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 [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!

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catferret
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 26 Oct 2008 - 11:10

I do play WFB. And one of my armies is a Chaos Marauder Horde. No Hellcannon either.

The thing is you have the numbers in WFB to weather casualties, and you can get into combat as maneuvres are allowed (one wheel on the charge).

Mordheim has limited numbers and you must charge in a straight line. All the opponent has to do is keep stepping round a corner to avoid being charged. You end up chasing them round in circles never able to actually charge while they shoot you up with the rest of their models. Very frustrating.

Attempting to pin them in place or herd them with hounds only works so long before the hounds get shot up; or if they do get into combat they don't have the survivability. Nothing else, barring an expensive Ogre, has the speed and resilience required to herd the opponent effectively. I haven't tried the Spawn yet, but I have concerns over it's reliability.

While I understand that warbands have to have weaknesses, I think that the heroes should at least be allowed throwing axes as well. At least then they could step round a corner and throw an axe at them in the hope of knocking the opponent down so they can't run away.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm still fully intending to stick with my Norse regardless. They are a modelling project for me and effectiveness in game is a secondary concern (I have started models with 2-handed weapons, or shields , or throwing axes). It's almost impossible to get Mordheim played in Edinburgh. I was just wanting to voice some concerns about their playability in case anyone else was interested. Or for when I can find people to play with.
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 26 Oct 2008 - 11:51

Well, it's one of those cases where I can only say: play them before you complain (but I ask you not to read that line with as harsh a tone as it probably comes across!). The marauders are the oldest warband in our group and we've been using them for like 4 years now. That's why I'm very confidant that they are neither broken, nor underpowered. Your concerns depend on so many factors that I really can't get into all of that now. It depends on whether and how you use Chaoshounds, what and how much scenery... it's really too much. If you got a couple of games in, please voice your concerns again. For now, I'll say again that ranged weapons are way overrated anyways and a buch of bowman is hardly enough to stop an approaching horde of Orcs or Beastmen. I also think I have never heard anyone say that the Norse (the Lustrian Norse Explorers) are underpowered and they have the same options for ranged weapons as the Marauders.

Again, please don't get me wrong but I think you really need not worry. It's funny how differently people perceive warband lists. While I had to defend the Merchan Caravan here (few pages back) against Horatius, who thought they were too weak, I had to defend them on the Najmitia forum again, where people thought they were overpowered. I understand peoples desire to say it when they are worried but if you are seriously interested in a warband, just try them, play a couple of games, and when you are sure that your experience is kinda objective (and not flawed by unusual situations like extreme good/bad luck, random happenings, ..), come back and tell us about your experience. I really really don't mean to shoot down any discussions but I find them to be not so constructive when done before any actual playing.

Again, I really don't mean to come across harsh or closed-minded!

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 26 Oct 2008 - 13:47

just to chime in, I've played about 10 games in the last year - playing as orcs against skaven, or vise versa. Every rat had a sling and my orcs and gobos had 3 goblins that only had short bows. (We may not be very tactical, but..) in every game we've played, there has only been 1 round of shooting maximum before close combat insued. My gobos (who's sole purpose is to shoot) rarely get a shot off before the orcs get into combat with available targets. I attribute this to a lot of terrain. Although I haven't looked into the warband (or played with them) I do agree with ciaty... as if it matters.

I do look forward to seeing what you create for your Mauraders.

Enjoy,
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 26 Oct 2008 - 20:34

Ah, I should have clarified . I played games with the Lustrian Norse warband before. This Marauder approach is just an opportunity to redo my existing models. The limited shooting was a bit of a problem but at least bows were available to Hunters and the heroes could get throwing axes. That and the Ulfwerener was awesome. Coupled with an Ogre, you had some scary fast moving stuff to tie up all the opponents shooting then lock them down so the rest of the warband could actually get into combat.

It was the Spawn I was referring to having not played. I'm still thinking an Ogre Mercenary would be a better choice. More cash in the longrun but the fixed move value makes it more reliable, and it can charge the same as a Spawn's maximum move. The Spawn has the potential advantage of massed attacks should it reach combat however.

Common warbands round these parts (when we can actually get a campaign running) are Reiklanders, Dwarves, Orcs, Undead and Skaven. With the exception of the Undead (who only have 5 archers) they are all very heavy on the shooting. I guess that has influenced my opinions somewhat.
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Mon 27 Oct 2008 - 2:42

I see where you're coming from. I think that shooting is very overrated and I never found Reiklanders (who I already deem the best of the mercenary warbands) to stand a chance against Orcs or Beastmen or other such close combat heavy warbands. The balance between shooting may exist in a way for the warbands in the rulebook (where Undead who cannot shoot, cannot climb either, so Reiklanders have a decent chance). With all the new warbands this has shifted a lot though.

Well, let's not take this discussion further here. Undead cannot (effectively) shoot either (only the Vampire can), and with their undead henchmen, who may not run, they certainly have more problems facing shooting than any other warband.

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Mon 27 Oct 2008 - 7:03

Great work Cianty!

And about this issue, have you tried the Norse Raiders 2.0v from one of the original Lustria setting developer (jvisgaitis)?

Looks nice: throwing axes with the Beasts Hunters HS rule, only 5 heroes in the beginning, no more hunters and better wolves.

It's here:
http://forum.specialist-games.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13490&whichpage=4

Do you think about? this warband looks more similar to BTB marauders warband that the original one.
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Mon 27 Oct 2008 - 7:20

Yes, I have seen that version. I never understood why he attempted to re-write that list as it was fine and working from what I heard. A re-write for the sake of ... re-writing will not be supported by me. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". From what I can tell his re-write was a one-man action that didn't even involve the original authors of the warband. You can see, erm ... read, BTB co-developer Stu (aka Werekin) posting in that thread. I have nothing to add to his words of wisedom (even if some may feel offended by his tone and choice of words). We decided to give the Lustria list a little "boost" by re-publishing it in the BTB supplement with all later errata incorporated because it fits the setting quite nicely. The original list is the one that people know and that they have experience with. I don't see a need for that re-write.

I apologize if I sound too Mad or No or Evil or Very Mad . I just do not see a need for that list. Smile It's all Cool

Cheers rendeer

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Mon 27 Oct 2008 - 9:41

Thanks for letting us know - downloaing part 5 as we speak. Wow, 1 more to go!
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Tue 28 Oct 2008 - 2:43

cianty wrote:
Yes, I have seen that version. I never understood why he attempted to re-write that list as it was fine and working from what I heard. A re-write for the sake of ... re-writing will not be supported by me. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". From what I can tell his re-write was a one-man action that didn't even involve the original authors of the warband. You can see, erm ... read, BTB co-developer Stu (aka Werekin) posting in that thread. I have nothing to add to his words of wisedom (even if some may feel offended by his tone and choice of words). We decided to give the Lustria list a little "boost" by re-publishing it in the BTB supplement with all later errata incorporated because it fits the setting quite nicely. The original list is the one that people know and that they have experience with. I don't see a need for that re-write.

I apologize if I sound too Mad or No or Evil or Very Mad . I just do not see a need for that list. Smile It's all Cool

Cheers rendeer

Hehe no problem Cianty. I haven't experiencie with these warbands, i have never played norse and marauders neither... for now, so I'll have to do it! ^^

Greetings Wink
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Fri 31 Oct 2008 - 17:05

There's some cool news on the BTB website. Have look!

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PostSubject: hi all need btb help please   Sat 1 Nov 2008 - 8:55

hi i am running a btb campaign for my wednesday night group very shortly either this coming wednesday or the following but i need some help...

ok first of all i have all 5 parts so it just may be my eyes being painted on thats my problem but ...
1) where does it tell you what warbands belong to the factions ie celetial protectorate
2) who belongs on each factions for sorting monster allies ie the lure of fortune and the silent threat
3) campaign objects for the factions

as i said this could totally just me being thick for those of you that are from england im from that place with the bent spire

ohh before i go thanks for any help and i will post the prelude to the upcoming campaign in a day or so cheers all

martin
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sat 1 Nov 2008 - 9:08

Hi, Martin.

There is one single answer to all your questions: All of this is described in the "Objectives" section. This, however, has not been released yet. You will have to wait until next Sunday, when Part 6 of the BTB supplement is released. However (again!), the Objectives won't be in Part 6. They will be in the full release of the supplement, which will come shortly after Part 6. In the meantime, if you and your gaming group can't wait any longer, drop me a line via PM and I'll supply you with everything you need.

Lastly, when playing a BTB campaign make sure you're using the special BTB roster sheets from Part 1 (also available from the BTB website) so you can easily keep track of your warband's campaign points.

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sat 1 Nov 2008 - 15:42

ahh i see so my arnt painted on after all

well i could inform the group we need to wait a couple of weeks and just play a few prelude games to be getting on with and then start as soon as you have released the full pack

all looks great and really looking forward to the full release and from what myself and the group have read to press its better then what we normally have to pay for m8 so carry on the great work.

ohh and yea we already started using the new rosters ready to go

cheers dude

martin
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sat 1 Nov 2008 - 16:51

Thank you, Martin! I'm glad you and your group are liking it so far!

(I'll now merge this thread with the original BTB thread)

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sat 8 Nov 2008 - 17:01

The last instalment is out now!

http://bordertownburning.de.vu/

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 0:36

Hi Cianty!

For some reason i canŽt get your BTB-page to load. This is the first time iŽve got that problem, and i am eagerly awaiting issue six Wink


Forget it, it is working now Very Happy Downloading issue 6 right now.
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 2:52

thanks cianty,another time, the best supplement in the world thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 3:00

At last!
Nice to see them all Very Happy
I have to read it first, but I'm certain it's excellent work, as always!
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 8:58

Cianty, you heartless little prankster tongue
I really thought iŽd be able to play BTB after issue 6 - which was after all supposed to be the final one - and then you state in the foreword that the objectives will only be released later in a complete edition. I do hope you make this worth the additonal wait by a new layout with a logical structure (e.g. all the warbands together in one chapter etc.) Wink .

Apart from that it is another great issue, i like the the siege scenario best as it reminds me of the siege scenes in kingdom of heaven. You have done a wonderful job in keeping the quality that high throughout the issues...and the delay gives me the time to finish some more marauders and monks Wink .
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 9:27

Horatius wrote:
Cianty, you heartless little prankster tongue

Ha ha!

Horatius wrote:
I really thought iŽd be able to play BTB after issue 6 - which was after all supposed to be the final one - and then you state in the foreword that the objectives will only be released later in a complete edition. I do hope you make this worth the additonal wait by a new layout with a logical structure (e.g. all the warbands together in one chapter etc.) Wink .

Well, that is actually how we originally wanted to release it. Hower, we feared that we would overwhelm people with too much content at a time. You really need to understand the random happenings, exploration results, special scenarios and objectives as a whole in their entirety to be able to grasp the concept of these non-linear narrative campaigns. With these Town Cryer'esque instalments we made sure that people got a chance to go through the material carefully and now they are ready for the core of the project, the objectives. By the way, they are simpler than you might expect, but having played them and from the feedback from other groups I am confidant that all of it works out great. So with the core feature still missing, people have a reason to even download the full supplement once it is out. Wink

The supplement will, of course, be a thoroughly sorted book. If you care, here's the "tracklist" (ie the various PDF files).


Border Town Burning
-- Contents --

00 Content
01 Background
02 Spoils of War
03 Objectives
04 Scenarios
05 Forces of Nature
06 Perilous Phenomenon
07 Bestiary
08 Exploration
09 Warbands
10 Marauders of Chaos
11 Norse Explorers
12 Merchant Caravans
13 Restless Dead
14 Battle Monks of Cathay
15 Black Dwarfs
16 Maneaters
17 Soldiers of Fortune
18 Dramatis Personae
19 Gallery
20 Concluded
A1 Mordheim Roster Sheet
A2 Reference
A3 Tunnel Templates

Horatius wrote:
Apart from that it is another great issue, i like the the siege scenario best as it reminds me of the siege scenes in kingdom of heaven. You have done a wonderful job in keeping the quality that high throughout the issues...and the delay gives me the time to finish some more marauders and monks Wink .

I look forward to seeing pics of them!

The whole content is actually ready. What we are doing now is working on the gallery section of the book. Due to some photo shoots of the GW Poole campaign people, the supplement will be released in December. This will also give me time to prepare some more minis and terrain for the supplement. Also, whoever likes to see their warbands or terrain in the book, should contact me via PM or email, but I will announce this on the BTB website soon.

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 15:23

I can't access the site, either. Is something wrong with the server?
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 15:57

Eliazar wrote:
I can't access the site, either. Is something wrong with the server?

The domain is causing problems. You can still access the site through the direct link http://cianty.ashtonsanders.com/btb/

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 23:30

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 1:58

Just posted this on the BTB website:

Border Town Burning website wrote:
As you might know we are currently working on completing the supplement. The rules portion has been done and tested for a while now and we are focusing on putting a large gallery section together to get readers inspired and motivated. In the meantime I made sure that the most current versions of the individual sections are online and you can download them as separate PDF files from the respective pages of the website.

BTB Wants You!
If you have begun converting your own BTB warbands or are building some specific terrain and you would like to see it being included in the supplement's gallery section, do not hesitate to use the contact page to get in touch with us. We will happily use your works! If you want to submit photos of your miniatures please note that, out of respect to Games Workshop, we are looking for Citadel Miniatures only, not figures by non-GW producers. I hope you understand that.

Due to some photo shootings at the GW Poole store in December we are heading for a mid December release of the full supplement. This will give me time to also finish some more minis and terrain for the gallery chapter. If you want to see some of your stuff in the book, make sure you submit it in time. Maybe let me know that you are working on something in advance so I can inform you about the very last possible deadline.

Cheers,
Cianty


If you like to submit photos of your BTB related scenery or miniatures to us, please contact me via PM on this board or through the contact page on the BTB website. If you have already posted any of such works here then chances are that I will contact you! Thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: [Supplement] Border Town Burning - Full Supplement Out Now!!   Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 2:13

I just check out the Nippon Ogres. OH BABY, they ARE the absolute COOLEST! I REALLY love the Army Standard Bearer. thumbsup
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