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 What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?

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Asp
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Sun 8 Nov 2009 - 16:58

Elf henchmen should start with 10 xp

max 33% of the warband can be armed with missile weapons
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Sun 8 Nov 2009 - 17:01

Popmouth wrote:
Hmm, why do you asume this, everyone claims them to be greatly over-powered, and many gives witness of 6 odd elves beating every warband in their gaming group to the pulp! Perhaps the experience penetly should only apply to the experience earned after each battle; kills etc. give full points as normal (?)

Oh no, I'm not saying I dislike the mechanic, I'm just slightly concerned that along with Toughness cap of 3, higher costs and a limit on Shadow Walkers will be going to overboard ... I might leave off the toughness cap (saving me from adding in an altered Maximum stat line) if I go with the experience penalty, as some seem abit unsure of it at anyrate.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Mon 9 Nov 2009 - 0:38

Doing up a nice little document I was copying some of the Shadow Warrior stuff and this caught my eye.

Sniper
Long years of guerilla warfare against the Dark Elves have taught Shadow Warriors how to strike from the shadows without being seen. If hidden, a warrior with this skill may shoot or cast spells and still remain hidden.


This seems quite powerful to me, like there should be a test or roll to stay hidden, what do you guys think?
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Mon 9 Nov 2009 - 2:45

Mortimer wrote:
Popmouth wrote:
Well, I know it's obvious, even so the most obvious things tend to pass people by anyway...

Sorry, I just thought I suggested the same mechanic in my first post Razz

lol!


thumbsup

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Da Bank
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Mon 9 Nov 2009 - 5:48

Mortimer wrote:
Doing up a nice little document I was copying some of the Shadow Warrior stuff and this caught my eye.

Sniper
Long years of guerilla warfare against the Dark Elves have taught Shadow Warriors how to strike from the shadows without being seen. If hidden, a warrior with this skill may shoot or cast spells and still remain hidden.


This seems quite powerful to me, like there should be a test or roll to stay hidden, what do you guys think?

There is an FAQ that does something with that skill. It is no longer that good.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Mon 9 Nov 2009 - 6:10

Mortimer wrote:

Oh no, I'm not saying I dislike the mechanic, I'm just slightly concerned that along with Toughness cap of 3, higher costs and a limit on Shadow Walkers will be going to overboard ... I might leave off the toughness cap (saving me from adding in an altered Maximum stat line) if I go with the experience penalty, as some seem abit unsure of it at anyrate.

Well I never claimed that this was supposed to be a change on top of the other changes suggested.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Mon 9 Nov 2009 - 12:19

Da Bank wrote:
There is an FAQ that does something with that skill. It is no longer that good.

Ooh, if someone can point me to that, it would be great, thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Mon 9 Nov 2009 - 13:13

Q. The Sniper special skill for Elves is a bit
cheesy, as they can remain hidden whilst
shooting at the enemy is that fair.
A. On second thoughts we have amended this
skill as power players may just get this for all
of their warband and hide and shoot which
does make for a very dull game. Therefore we
have added this rule – if the sniper’s target is
not taken out of action he is allowed an
immediate Initiative test as are anyone
within 2” of him and if successful they spot
the sniper and he loses his ability to remain

Hidden.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Mon 9 Nov 2009 - 17:53

When it says 'as are anyone within 2" of him' is the him referring to the sniper or the target?

Edit: Oh and heres my small alteration to Powerful Build, since I took away the two Elf limit.

Powerful Build
The warrior is strongly built for an Elf, and is capable of feats of strength not often seen among the people of Ulthuan. A warrior with this skill may choose skills from the Strength skills table from now on. This skill may not be taken by Shadow Weavers and a warrior must have a Strength of 4 before choosing this skill.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Tue 10 Nov 2009 - 16:10

I'd imagine it's the sniper, rather than the target.

Come to think of it, there should also be an addendum to the sniper rule that doesn't allow black powder weapons (firearms) to be used from hiding. It's kind of hard to be stealthy when theres a big "boom!", a flash of light, and a big smoke cloud to mark your position.

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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Tue 10 Nov 2009 - 16:53

I may have misread, but I'm pretty sure Elves may never use blackpowder weapons .... to human and icky or somethng.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Tue 10 Nov 2009 - 16:55

The target and any models within 2 inches of the target may make Init tests to "spot" the sniper.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Wed 11 Nov 2009 - 0:27

Shadow Weavers, Combat Skills or no?
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Wed 11 Nov 2009 - 9:11

i think even though shadow weavers, despite the fact that they are casters, but they're still elves which probably makes them more adept in close combat than most humans, so i'd say allowing shadow weavers combat skills are fine.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Wed 11 Nov 2009 - 17:14

Today I won a fight vs them.
I was playing Dwarves ... ^^ ... with Ogre and Pit Fighter ... as they reach the middle of his band ... they rout after 2 round ehehe ^^
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Wed 11 Nov 2009 - 17:45

garathiel wrote:
Today I won a fight vs them.
I was playing Dwarves ... ^^ ... with Ogre and Pit Fighter ... as they reach the middle of his band ... they rout after 2 round ehehe ^^

Well I hope to have them still be reasonably powerful once I'm finished, I want a balanced yet playable warband, just not have them as the all powerful, semi-unbeatable warband they are made out as now.

On that note Garathiel, any notable weaknesses/advantages in your game we should consider?
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Wed 11 Nov 2009 - 18:31

He has got 2 heroes ... insane ... quickshot , ignore covers , T4 ... in an upper lever and in cover.

Very Happy

Fortunally they concentrate all their strike on my Engineer , heavy armour+shield+luckycharm+rabbidfoot+helmet and fail to kill him on long range/cover ... he had Bs6 QuickShoot Xbow with Black Ichorid ... and I stunned them in few turns.

---

I think the Fay rule from the druchii forum is the best to mantain the things equilibrate.
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Wed 11 Nov 2009 - 21:46

Now I'm slowly working down through the (un)official Warband trying to dissect each part as it where, so bear with me.

Special Items

Now I'm not sure if the items are a major problem but I am concerned over some of them ... and some just bug me ... bug me ... Bugman's ... Bugman's for Elves! What?!?

Basically this is how I read 'Elven Wine' and it just didn't sit right, Elves are specifically restricted from Bugman's but thats ok, they get their own version. I was considering lessening its effect and lowering its price, because I just feel this Elvish stuff isn't as good as proper Dwarvern brand liquor.

Only idea I had was it gives the Elves a 3D6 test against Ld when it comes to fear, choosing the best two results ... and reduce its price to 25 to 35 +2d6 or so.

Standard of Nagarythe: Second Leader with Ld of 10 basicly? ... and if they get taken out all your warriors go frenzy? Ermmmm .... just seems, really really good ... maybe its worth the cost?

Elven Runestones: Being able to dispel all your opponents spells from anywhere by the sounds of the description (by making a difficulty roll first) ... to me it seems it should have a limited number of uses or a more strict range (line of sight to the target of the spell?)

War Horn of Nagartyhe: Not to bothered with this, as others can get Horns with similar effects.

Familiar: Well these seem ok, maybe alittle cheap (price wise), but they are technically available to everyone with Magic based Spellcasters.

Any thoughs and suggestions?
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Thu 12 Nov 2009 - 6:35

In our campaing there was a Master of Carnival of Caos casting pestilence (familiar + reroll skill + rabbid ç_ç ) ... and the Runes of the Shadow Weaver ... lol ... give Us more balanced multiplayer matches.

The caster have tons of bonuses to cast his spells
The dispeller must check the original difficult without bonuses.
I think this object isn't cheap and is very near with the HE background , they are have the best casters and rangers in all the world.

The wine and the Standard too ... don't think someone could abuse of it , they aren't cheap and give a little support in the battle.

---

Instead the familiar is a little cheap ... but like the rabbid foot , is a global object that helps all the casters in the game.
(I think its good the combination of familiar for casters ... adding a band that could dispell Very Happy)
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PostSubject: Re: What is the Inherent Problems with Shadow Warriors?   Today at 20:20

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