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 Do you play on above groud levels?

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magokiron
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PostSubject: Do you play on above groud levels?   Mon 2 Nov 2009 - 15:59

Just like the title says.

That's because I have spent quite a few hours building scenery, you know, ruined houses, towers, inns, platforms, etc. BUT, no matter how many interconnecting walkways there are, how many ladders or stairs, or even if a shard of wyrdstone is in the last floor of a building, 90% (or more) of all fighting and encounters in our gaming table ends up at floor level.

It's just us who are playing it wrong?

Do I need to make some "ABSOLUTELY IMPASSABLE" terrain in the middle of the table so upper walkways are the only way to move from one side of the table to the other?

What is your experience in this respect?

Are all those (admitedly, fantastic looking) tall buidings really neccessary?

Or is just "eye candy" but "serious" gang fight does end at floor level anyway?

I will appreciate your opinions and game experiences.

Best wishes.
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Mortimer
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Mon 2 Nov 2009 - 16:29

Climb your gang up their and start shooting up the other guy, they will soon join you if they don't wanna end up pin cushioned.
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Asp
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Mon 2 Nov 2009 - 16:44

the problem is inherent in vanilla mordheim because:

- the advantage of sniper positions is not very good

sniper in a tower: (cover + free tageting)
sniper moving along ground level (cover + forced targeting)

-------

- movement 4"/ 8" is really too far - this takes away the advantage of elevated positions

- all warriors are pretty good at climbing - my reducing movement to 3" and adding the encumbered rule makes climbing more interesting

other than that, as you say, the best way to make people climb is to make impassible terrain AND offer them very good sniper positions

also, some rules to improve elevated sniping positions would be very welcome.

like, for example, if you are shooting at a target 6" or more BELOW the shooter, you gain +1 Strength
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Myntokk
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Mon 2 Nov 2009 - 18:19

The majority of our games take place at ground level as well. I never really saw it as that much of a problem - the gist of our games is that melee characters stay at ground level because generally speaking the most direct route is on ground level, and why bother attempting to climb, risking a fall, etc. when you can run to the guy? Conversely shooters try to pick out a good spot one level off the ground, unless there are many of them and not enough shooting posts in which case they move on up to make use of higher spots.

While I can see that it would be more exciting to have some fighing going on at more varied levels, I do think that it's more realistic to have most of the action going on at ground level, since ultimately that's where everything conncets and like I pointed out earlier, why go to the trouble of climbing when you cover more ground by running below?

I do, however, kind of like the idea of some strictly impassable terrain cutting through the middle of the board, or if not that then having a couple of bottlenecks to make above-ground routes more appealing. You could have something simple and straightforward like a wall, or you could also have a chasm, a wide river, a wall of fire, and the list goes on. Reminds me of video games in a city setting, where you have to find ways over walled areas and improvise climbing routes.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Mon 2 Nov 2009 - 19:19

90% of our games' action is on the ground level, but a solid 10% is above. Since we don't allow climbing unless a move is begun at the wall (with the exception of models with Wall Runner), it's not so easy maneuverability-wise to get up them. We also don't have so much terrain that it completely restricts usable fields of fire for snipers. Our Wizards, Witch Hunter heroes, and contingents of Marksmen make regular use of sniping positions when the battlefield allows.

Sometimes restricting ground-level pathways to bottlenecks sounds great! There have to be areas of Mordheim where, as described in Street Fight, the buildings have collapsed to impassable ruins. Also chasms (almost like the hole described in That's All Mine! from Town Cryer 10) could well have opened up, preventing effective movement across them. Buildings could have been raised across open sewers and channels, forcing some climbing to cross.

You should also see Horned Rat's scenario The Thing In The Water (http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/rules-and-gameplay-f1/scenario-the-thing-in-the-water-t2791.htm?highlight=the+thing+in+the+water) for another reason to get above ground (well, water) level.
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JAFisher44
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Mon 2 Nov 2009 - 20:24

Well, one house rule that offers a bit more advantage to models above the ground was discussed here recently. Models that are shooting up to a higher model must measure straight line distance, but, models that are shooting down to a lower model measure horizontal distance only.
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WarbossKurgan
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 0:01

JAFisher44 wrote:
Well, one house rule that offers a bit more advantage to models above the ground was discussed here recently. Models that are shooting up to a higher model must measure straight line distance, but, models that are shooting down to a lower model measure horizontal distance only.
That's exactly how we play it and lots of high-level action happens as a result. A shooting-heavy warband (like Zelophahad's Halflings and Stirland Outlaws) can get a good advantage from climbing towers and the 3D element this adds to the game makes it much more interesting.

We also allow movement up ladders and climbing less than 2" to count as movement in over "open" ground - again this encourages full use of the 3D environment. Making sure everywhere is accessible by at least two routes with ladders and walkways helps too.
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Kaptain Dedgob
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 0:22

Ultimately, I'd say this is just how the people you play with want to roll. What makes it for me about this hobby is to add some more "roleplay" into it. Maybe not the best route to make your goblins climb a wall while a big orc keeps shouting at them and threatening to put them in the stew that night if they fall, but it sure made the people I was playing with enjoy the game more.

Also snipers in towers are pretty cool.
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magokiron
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 0:31

Thanks for your comments pals.

So we are not alone in that the main game development is at ground level.

About elevated firing positions, as we tend to have LOTS of terrain, barricades, crates, etc, most models can seek cover or move pretty much most of the game out of sight of a sniper.

I guess that by placing several platforms breaking the table can make for a more interesting battle, but even so, platforms (i.e. square "hills") ARE "ground level" so... Do we NEED all those tall buildings?

Best wishes
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 5:20

I got some feedback on this beasty from the Guys for whom I make ALL my Mordheim Thingys...my Mordheim buildings tend toward the VERY TALL side with LOTS of interconnecting walkways. As a gaming group, they are apparently of the Flying Circus type Mordheimers; i.e., the upper stories ARE where the REAL action takes place. This is partially due to a basic dare devil attitude with the players & partially because they use ALL the Horrors I made coming out of the sewer sytem & wandering the streets as wandering monsters thereby making a stroll down the streets particularly dangerous.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 5:31

Heh, yes, some Random Happenings can help people scurry out of the ground level.

As far as the cover modifiers go, this is a prime reason our group has found Trick Shooter to be the best Shooting skill, far more useful than Eagle Eyes and even Quick Shot!

It models can move out of sight of snipers too easily, may I suggest that you have too much terrain. (Gasp! Wyldhunt must not be a true Mordheim player - he believes there can be too much terrain!) Errr, wait. Let me explain that better. Perhaps you have too many standing buildings and walls. Have some buildings that are nothing more than piles of rubble. Have some pools and fenced yards (with rubbled walls). Have an open square. Allow those shooters some fields of fire. There is a balance to placing terrain so that the game has both tactical movement and fields of fire to use.

For elevated platforms, rather than just hills or city block risers, you could have buildings with upper-level porches, flat-topped towers, wide walls, and buildings whose upper walls mostly collapsed (leaving some elevated floor space). Keep the buildings, but give them the same tactical effect as hills.
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outbreak
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 15:55

I've found the opposite in my games lately, enemy camps up in buildings where i can only get 1 model into b2b (ladder edge) this really screws up my swarming skaven Sad
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magokiron
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 21:40

outbreak wrote:
I've found the opposite in my games lately, enemy camps up in buildings where i can only get 1 model into b2b (ladder edge) this really screws up my swarming skaven Sad

Depending on the scenario, Forget about them and secure all wyrdstone Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 22:27

Yeah magokiron that's the thing i like in mordheim unfortunately my last 2 matches were both skirmishes with me having to run half the board against dwarven crossbows and warlock magic arrows Sad ah well still fun when i get slayers on ground level to swarm with 6 or so rats around him bahaha
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Fri 13 Nov 2009 - 14:44

See, I think that the issue comes from the scenarios. Almost every scenario comes down to making your opponent Rout. In those scenarios there are only a couple reasons for people to go into buildings, you have a shooty warband, or your opponent is using a swarm and you're not. If scenarios used different objectives than just kill the enemy, we may se maneuvering around the battlefield to be more important. Look at the scenario Occupy; I've always found that scenario leads to more interesting games (even though one side can still rout).

My group has actually been toying with the idea of making Rout only available as a choice and only when you have lost half the models in your band, but the scenarios usually have a timer/objective. Then the scenario objectives can be placed inside buildings or at least seperate from killing, making people make choices about combat or objective claiming.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you play on above groud levels?   Today at 17:11

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