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Pathfinder Dubstyles
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PostSubject: BtB equipment questions   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 13:33

I have a few questions about Border Town Burning, if the authors would could help clarify i would be much appreciative. The errata cleared up a few questions but some are still bugging me:

1. Chaos Armor is not on the starting list of any warband, so it may only be searched for once the campaign starts. It is specified to only be available to certain chaotic warbands, but does this mean only those warbands may search for it, or only those warbands may use it?

2. In the case of weapons, it is assumed that nobody way use them unless they are on the starting lists or attain certain skills which allow their use. In the case of armor, there is no associated skill, which begs the question: does chaos armor count as heavy armor like Gromril and Ithilmar? It can't be stolen since it is fused with flesh, but i'm sure there is some way for others to attain it i'm not thinking of...

3. Continuing the same train of thought, Lamellar armor is not on any starting list. Who can even use it? Everyone? Nobody? Only those who have access to heavy armor?

4. Also, if dwarfs can use it, what stops it from being the better alternative to Gromril in every way? It's cheaper, easier to find, provides the same protection, and the movement reduction is ignored by stunties.

5. There are 2 sets of rules and prices/rarities for steel whips now. The marauder version for 15 gold/rare 9 with enrage, and the sister version for 10 gold/common. Also, the Chaos Dwarf Gaoler can be armed with one for 10 gc starting a warband, but they are not on the BtB general equipment list and so may not be purchased after the campaign starts. What is going on here exactly?

It is my belief all versions of the steel whip should be 15 gold, enrage and rare 9 unless you start with it. Enrage is only immediately useful for Marauders but there are some instances it might be handy, allies, control spells and weapon masters, etc...
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PostSubject: Re: BtB equipment questions   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 14:45

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
1. Chaos Armor is not on the starting list of any warband, so it may only be searched for once the campaign starts. It is specified to only be available to certain chaotic warbands, but does this mean only those warbands may search for it, or only those warbands may use it?

The "XXX only" describes which warbands (or models) may search for the item, doesn't it? So Chaos Armour can be searched for only by Heroes from those warbands.

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
2. In the case of weapons, it is assumed that nobody way use them unless they are on the starting lists or attain certain skills which allow their use. In the case of armor, there is no associated skill, which begs the question: does chaos armor count as heavy armor like Gromril and Ithilmar? It can't be stolen since it is fused with flesh, but i'm sure there is some way for others to attain it i'm not thinking of...

Yes, Chaos Armour counts as Heavy Armour just like Ithilmar and Gromril Armour.

There is no way to take Chaos Armour away from its wearer as it says under Gift of Chaos: "It can never be removed". No captured result or anything can break this rule. The Hero that find Chaos Armour puts it on himself and keeps it forever.

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
3. Continuing the same train of thought, Lamellar armor is not on any starting list. Who can even use it? Everyone? Nobody? Only those who have access to heavy armor?

Yes, same as Gromil/Ithilmar/Chaos armour, this one may be used by all models with access to Heavy Armour.

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
4. Also, if dwarfs can use it, what stops it from being the better alternative to Gromril in every way? It's cheaper, easier to find, provides the same protection, and the movement reduction is ignored by stunties.

Indeed. Dwarfs have the perfect special rule to make the most out of this item.

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
5. There are 2 sets of rules and prices/rarities for steel whips now. The marauder version for 15 gold/rare 9 with enrage, and the sister version for 10 gold/common. Also, the Chaos Dwarf Gaoler can be armed with one for 10 gc starting a warband, but they are not on the BtB general equipment list and so may not be purchased after the campaign starts. What is going on here exactly?

It is my belief all versions of the steel whip should be 15 gold, enrage and rare 9 unless you start with it. Enrage is only immediately useful for Marauders but there are some instances it might be handy, allies, control spells and weapon masters, etc...

The increased price and rarity for the marauders' whip is due to the special rule. Looking back at it now, this was really bad design on the Steel Whips for the Marauders. I should have either called it differently so as to not confuse it with the Sisters' version of the whip, or I should have factored the rule into the marauders rules somewhere (general special rule or special rule for the war priest). The way it is now is indeed confusing (although this didn't come up before). Maybe I will change the marauders' whip's name in the next errata of the supplement.

The Chaos Dwarfs do use the exact same weapon as the Sisters. It never occured to me that unless you have the weapon listed in the general equipment chart or in the warband's new equipment section (which is a kind of exlusive addition to the list), then the warband would have no chance at purchasing the item later on during a campaign. I will add the Steel Whip, 10gc, Common, (Sisters and CDs only) to the BTB Price Chart. This is a cool thing you spotted here. I think there is no precedent for such a situation (a warband with access to an exclusive weapon of another warband) you are certainly right, that it doesn't work the way it is now (although most people probably won't realize it - wel, haven't until now). Thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: BtB equipment questions   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 16:47

Pay no attention to me. I didn't see at first that this thread was about BtB.
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PostSubject: Re: BtB equipment questions   Thu 29 Oct 2009 - 0:31

I read way to much into things, you are welcome for my interest in crunchy rules interactions!

As for the lamellar, it just seems so, un-dwarfy to use samurai armor made by humans when gromril is clearly beter because it's made by a dwarf!

I guess ill just delete the item from my Mordheim setting, just don't like the item. What i did do for my master item list, is make the rarity of BtB weapons/armor one higher than normal to take into account the added rarity of such exotic weapons in the empire. No one has even tried to find any so it hasn't made an impact yet. Things like ladders, chests, the new poisons etc. are not harder to find though.

If you rename the marauder's steel whip, my vote is on barbed whip. No particular reason, it just popped into my head. The vicious barbs can be the cause of the enrage rule, those doggies have been at the receiving end of that many times! Another good name is lacerator is another option, and I'm sure a thesaurus would turn up a few more.

I knew the probable answer to the chaos armor question, but i still think there might be some interaction which would let other warband acquire it without it first being used by a chaos model, just a hunch you see. I'll let you know if i find any loopholes.
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PostSubject: Re: BtB equipment questions   Thu 29 Oct 2009 - 2:00

Isn't lamellar armour usually lighter and less protective than platemails and even chainmail? (Heavy Armours)
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PostSubject: Re: BtB equipment questions   Thu 29 Oct 2009 - 2:23

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
As for the lamellar, it just seems so, un-dwarfy to use samurai armor made by humans when gromril is clearly beter because it's made by a dwarf!

Well, Dwarfs can wear Ithilmar Armour, which is far more un-dwarfy than wearing human armour.

The idea behind this armour was to provide a viable alternative to Gromril armour in order to push the overall use of armour (along with the +1 armour save rule for shields at the back).

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
If you rename the marauder's steel whip, my vote is on barbed whip. No particular reason, it just popped into my head. The vicious barbs can be the cause of the enrage rule, those doggies have been at the receiving end of that many times! Another good name is lacerator is another option, and I'm sure a thesaurus would turn up a few more.

Great! Thanks for your suggestions! Thinking about it more the whip will definately be renamed in the next errata update.

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
I knew the probable answer to the chaos armor question, but i still think there might be some interaction which would let other warband acquire it without it first being used by a chaos model, just a hunch you see. I'll let you know if i find any loopholes.

If you do come up with a loophole, please let me know!

You could think that there is one possibility: Taking a suit of Chaos Armour from a captured Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer with the Chaos Engineer skill. But the Sorcerer not only ignores the Gift of Chaos rule (=cannot be removed) he also cannot wear the Armour. Therefore he cannot really run around with Chaos Armours (like some miscellaneous items) but would drop them in the warband's stash instead immediately after purchasing them.

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PostSubject: Re: BtB equipment questions   Today at 7:24

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