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Bean965
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PostSubject: Cover house rule?   Tue 27 Oct 2009 - 16:42

Hey! New to the forum today, so forgive me - I'm sure this has been asked before.

I've played the game with my buddy about 1/2 dozen times now. I have a Possessed warband built along a swamp/repile theme with some big figures - reptilian wings sticking out, etc.

He has played several different bands and the difference in whether models can be spotted between his bands and mine is large, especially when he played the Skaven.

So, if I were a power gamer, I'd put together a warband with a bunch of figures in crouching poses to maximize their ability to conceal themselves, but that would look cruddy.

So last time we played, I suggested we consider a house rule where the extremities don't count when sighting a figure under cover.

I'm not crazy about my own idea - one of the things I like the best about Mordheim is how "what you see is what you get"

Have other people done anything to address this disincentive to have larger models?
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Tue 27 Oct 2009 - 19:36

It really all comes down to a judgement call. In our games, we generally say that if all you can see of the guy is a stray hand or leg then it's not enough to shoot him, since models are typically in more dynamic poses and we don't want to encourage the very issue you brought up - powergaming that extends all the way into modeling with a specific advantage in mind.

However, I don't think it works to say "extremities don't count" either - what if all of his limbs are out in the open, and only the model's trunk is covered? Well I'd certainly say there's enough to shoot at, albeit with a cover bonus.

Of course, that's also just a completely realistic downside to bigger guys - possessed, or even orcs, beastmen, etc. are bigger than your average human and therefore they're gonna have a harder time hiding behind small terrain features. If shooty warbands become a real problem in your games, try adding more terrain to temper it a bit.
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Tue 27 Oct 2009 - 19:47

when we play we play, our intent is to do it my the model, as is. We even have a laser pointer for those hard to reach places, but that's mainly to tell if a target can be seen at all!

In practice we cut a lot of corners, and give people the benefit of the doubt (if there is anything between the two models chances are it gives cover, though prone models do not in our opinion).

A common convention we use, is that if a model can't technically see out of a window and decides to shoot, they are considered to be leaning out of the window and can thus be shot at from the same extreme angles they might target.
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Tue 27 Oct 2009 - 20:11

In my group we assume the warrior occupies his entire base and no more - just imagine a square column from the bottom of the base to the top of the model's head (or to where the model's head would be if he were standing). We feel that this does a good job of representing a moving warrior without penalizing people for posing their models dynamically.

For example, I'd say it's pretty ridiculous to assume that the orc with a great weapon will keep holding his giant axe high above his head when sheltering behind a tall barricade. The "base-sized column" rule takes care of that.
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 4:45

Totally agree with CygnusMaximus.

Also, note this on Living rulebook, page 15, HIT MODIFIERS table:

"-1 Cover: If any part of the model is obscured by scenery or other models then it counts as being in cover"
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Da Bank
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 5:44

CygnusMaximus I believe stated it correctly. You can not expect a normal model (a skaven, human or orc to not be standing) To model them is cool but for gaming purposes it DOES NOT WORK.

The rules are clear on how cover works and in fact it shows the models standing.

The rules state you can hide (if all those special circumstances work) nowhere does it say "If you model your fighters crawling on their bellies or knelling that they gain a better Cover Save.

In fact, knelling and prone position are not in Mordheim they are in that 55MM 40K Sci Fi game Inquisitor. I have read the rules but never found a way to bring them over without making it more confusing.

In final, it does not matter how your figure is model it still "occupies" a space no matter what that would "match" to another model of similiar size.

I hope this makes sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 8:53

Personally we use the Necromunda rules for cover in our games of Mordheim.

So if the shooter can see at least half of the target's body but not the entire body, then the target is in 'partial cover'. the shooter suffers -1 to hit.

If the shooter can see some of the target's body but less than half of it, then the target is said to be 'in cover'. The shooter suffers a -2 to hit penalty.

This was mainly because people wanted to claim the same cover save hiding behind a stick as they did hiding behind a wall.

But then we also allow hits on a 7+
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CygnusMaximus
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 9:06

I've tried using the rules that Ghod mentioned, but found (with decent amounts of scenery) that it handicapped warriors with missile weapons a little too much. I suppose that wouldn't be much of a problem in later stages when your warriors get BS increases, trick shooter, etc.

How much scenery do you use, Ghod? And how has it worked out for the shootier warbands?
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 9:29

We use a lot of scenery and a lot of shooting... It hasnt been too bad ...The good shooters still hit and the bad shooters still miss

As you said after a while with all the +1 BS and shooting skills it all evens out.

I do think that allowing 7+ hits is needed tho, as then even the worst shooter can hit with the right amount of luck.
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 10:00

Thanks folks - lots of good advice there. (I'm gonna get me a laser pointer!)

I think the main issue I'm trying to even out with my buddy/opponent isn't even as much about cover as it is about concealment. His Skaven, many of whom are in crouching poses, and his Sisters, who are mostly smaller, Reaper-style figs, are often unspottable in positions where my figures can be seen.

I'm okay with some variation, but, as someone else said, we want to avoid a situation where models are chosen for their tactical advantage rather than for their look on the battlefield.
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PostSubject: Re: Cover house rule?   Wed 28 Oct 2009 - 10:19

Tell him he can "call them" crouching but he moves at half speed. That is fair.
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