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 Modeling miniatures for WYSIWYG, and House Rules...

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eternaldream
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PostSubject: Modeling miniatures for WYSIWYG, and House Rules...   Wed 21 Oct 2009 - 11:10

So I already have a collection of Games Workshop miniatures. I want to convert them to Mordheim, but I am unsure on how to equip them. I'd like them to be WYSIWYG in regards to their equipment (armor, helmets, weapons, etc.). Right now I'm not sure what some of the best weapon combinations are.

I haven't actually played any real games now, so it's all theoryheim at this point. Still, I've looked over the rulebook a few times. So I'll ask what you think are good combinations for the heroes and henchmen? I don't want to powergame, but at the same time I want to make sure the warband is effective. Here's going down the list of equipment.

Maces, Hammers, Clubs: I think it's very useful, because they're cheap. Plus being stunned gives you a chance to instant KO them.

Axes: I don't see as useful because armor doesn't seem as prominent. Still, it's cheap.

Swords: I definitely think they're the best 1 handed weapon. The parry option looks like a huge help.

Flail: It's expensive for what it does, I think. Plus you only ever get 1 attack.

Morning Star: I think this would be a bit better than the flail if you had a 5+ HW and Shield armor save like in Warhammer Fantasy. Then I think this combo would work better.

Halberd: Since it's two handed, you lose the ability to carry a shield or another weapon. Plus even if you're +1S, you still only ever make 1 attack.

Spear: I see it useful defensively. I think this is more with figures with low movement like humans or dwarves. Probably not best used on single characters, but if you have them in a line, you could get a lot of hits on a charging foe.

Lance: I haven't even thought about mounted combat yet...

Great Weapon: Unlike in Warhammer Fantasy, you don't strike first when you charge. I think that's a huge problem, because you still only have 1 attack. And now your opponent has a chance to kill you before you hit, if you hit. Maybe if you struck first when charging, I would see this as worthwhile.

Bows: All the bows are pretty much the same, except for their ranges (and the Elf bow's -1AS). They seem decent to me. A cheap way to get some ranged support.

Crossbow: Seems like it would be effective in defense scenarios. Like if you're perched on a building in the center of the board.

Slings: Maybe in massed numbers...

Throwing stars: Seem like a good option for melee fighters to add a bit of range if they don't have bows (Skaven).

Repeater Crossbow: Seems okay...

Crossbow Pistol: Kind of expensive for what it does. It's nice that it strikes first before combat, but the -2BS penalty looks like it kills it.

Pistols: The only way I see it is to have a brace. Reloading seems tedious. Also, being able to fire them in close combat seems like a great bonus.

Dueling Pistols: Same as above, just better.

Blunderbuss: For its price, I don't think it's good as a one use only weapon. If you could take a turn or two to reload it... maybe.

Handgun: Only firing every other turn kills it. I'd rather get a crossbow or bow.

Long Rifle: It has a tremendous range... but it is horribly expensive! Plus it only fires every other turn. I think this is completely worthless. If you have a bunch of buildings, you probably won't even have LOS to shoot half the time.

Armor: With all the things that are S4 or armor piercing, armor doesn't seem like a good deal. It's expensive and slows you down. It would be nice to have a HW and Shield bonus in close combat like in Warhammer Fantasy.

Helmet: Now this seems like a good buy for anybody. The difference between being knocked out and stunned is huge.

Buckler: I'd rather get a sword or shield instead. It seems useless to get it when all it does is use a hand to parry, when you could get a sword to do the same thing and be able to attack.

So those are my assessments from just a beginner's look at the book. That just covers the modeling options I'd be facing. I just want to figure out what the best combinations are to use. Also I'd want to adopt some house rules to balance some things out. Right now, the two things I'm looking at changing are the rules for dual wielding and armor. I've looked around the net and come up with different ideas for both, but you can tell me what you think too. Any other comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for reading.
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Myntokk
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PostSubject: Re: Modeling miniatures for WYSIWYG, and House Rules...   Wed 21 Oct 2009 - 12:21

I think you're pretty spot-on with a lot of your assessments, here are my thoughts though:

eternaldream wrote:
I'd like them to be WYSIWYG in regards to their equipment (armor, helmets, weapons, etc.).
Personally - while I strive for WYSIWYG on all my figures in Mordheim we skip armor. Most often a model won't be wearing armor, as you pointed out, but if you happen to get your hands on a suit of gromril you really don't want to have to remodel the figure with a full torso swap to show that he's wearing the armor. Shields, on the other hand, are easy so I'd say go ahead and stick those on there whenever you can.

Quote :
Maces, Hammers, Clubs: I think it's very useful, because they're cheap. Plus being stunned gives you a chance to instant KO them.
Many people feel that these are the best weapons simply on account of how cheap they are, and with pretty good special rules. Frankly, especially for your henchmen, clubs are the way to go (unless their rules favor some specific type of weapon, like mercenary swordsmen or kislevite streltsi). That said, you don't want to be too boring by just throwing clubs on everyone because they're the cheapest.

Quote :
Axes: I don't see as useful because armor doesn't seem as prominent. Still, it's cheap.
Unless your group gravitates towards lots of armor, I would skip axes in favor of clubs.

Quote :
Swords: I definitely think they're the best 1 handed weapon. The parry option looks like a huge help.
There's a lot of debate about the usefulness of parrying (as well as dual-weilding vs. weapon + shield and the usefulness of armor). Sounds like you've already sort of run into this issue, but it may be worthwhile to check out some of those threads. As-is, I think that swords can be really good, especially if you learn the skill expert swordsman, but they are very expensive compared with other one-handed melee weapons so you can't really equip them willy-nilly.

Quote :
Flail: It's expensive for what it does, I think. Plus you only ever get 1 attack.
Well, you get your base attack characteristic (which is usually 1 starting out, but will likely increase). In my mind, a flail is a pretty good weapon if you're confident in your ability to hit the enemy, because wounding isn't going to be much of a problem and then you just mop up from there. It also has the added benefit that you don't strike last, unlike two-handed weapons. If you take one, give it to a high WS model.

Quote :
Morning Star: I think this would be a bit better than the flail if you had a 5+ HW and Shield armor save like in Warhammer Fantasy. Then I think this combo would work better.
Unless you're playing as Pit Fighters, who have some great skills to make morning stars much better, then they're not that great.

Quote :
Halberd: Since it's two handed, you lose the ability to carry a shield or another weapon. Plus even if you're +1S, you still only ever make 1 attack.
Similar to the flail, I think a halberd really does have a place for a guy who's confident in his ability to hit. At the expense of an attack you increase your ability to wound, so give it to someone who won't have a hard time hitting.

Quote :
Great Weapon: Unlike in Warhammer Fantasy, you don't strike first when you charge. I think that's a huge problem, because you still only have 1 attack. And now your opponent has a chance to kill you before you hit, if you hit. Maybe if you struck first when charging, I would see this as worthwhile.
Great Weapons can be really, really nasty. If you have one, the first skill you learn is always going to be Strongman, to counterbalance the only downside to them. Until then, charge into combat with a friend who can support you until you get to make your attack. And again, you get however many attacks you have for your characteristic. While initially this is likely to only be 1, that will grow so you're sacrificing 1 attack but you're going to hit really hard.

Quote :
Bows: All the bows are pretty much the same, except for their ranges (and the Elf bow's -1AS). They seem decent to me. A cheap way to get some ranged support.
Generally I don't bother with short bows unless they're the only form of ranged attack available, but otherwise bows are a great form of relatively cheap ranged attack.

Quote :
Crossbow: Seems like it would be effective in defense scenarios. Like if you're perched on a building in the center of the board.
Learn nimble and this is probably the best (most efficient, anyways) ranged weapon. With skills, black powder weapons are really nasty too though.

Crossbow Pistol: Kind of expensive for what it does. It's nice that it strikes first before combat, but the -2BS penalty looks like it kills it.

Quote :
Pistols: The only way I see it is to have a brace. Reloading seems tedious. Also, being able to fire them in close combat seems like a great bonus.
Without several skills (pistolier, eagle eyes, trick shot) pistols really aren't much of a ranged weapon, but can make a nice melee weapon.

Quote :
Dueling Pistols: Same as above, just better.
Actually, I think Duelling pistols are a great short ranged weapon, unlike a normal pistol. You get to effectively ignore any one shootin penalty, and if you learn trick shot then two (assuming the target is in cover). Add Eagle Eyes and you've got a 16" str4 weapon, ignoring cover and any other 1 penalty. Duelling pistols are expensive, but with the proper skills they can be killer and even without they're decent.

Quote :
Blunderbuss: For its price, I don't think it's good as a one use only weapon. If you could take a turn or two to reload it... maybe.
I really like blunderbusses, but it's important to line your shot up well.

Quote :
Handgun: Only firing every other turn kills it. I'd rather get a crossbow or bow.

Long Rifle: It has a tremendous range... but it is horribly expensive! Plus it only fires every other turn. I think this is completely worthless. If you have a bunch of buildings, you probably won't even have LOS to shoot half the time.
Black Powder is best with skills, so you kind of have to devote someone to fulfilling that role if you're going to take them. In many cases a crossbow outshines a handgun. The hunting rifle is unsurpassed in range, but is also prohibitively expensive so unless you happen across one or are very lucky with exploration rolls then it's probably not worth it

Quote :
Armor: With all the things that are S4 or armor piercing, armor doesn't seem like a good deal. It's expensive and slows you down. It would be nice to have a HW and Shield bonus in close combat like in Warhammer Fantasy.

Helmet: Now this seems like a good buy for anybody. The difference between being knocked out and stunned is huge.

Buckler: I'd rather get a sword or shield instead. It seems useless to get it when all it does is use a hand to parry, when you could get a sword to do the same thing and be able to attack.
With most armor I would suggest checking out various other people's fixes, since as-is most of it is not worthwhile. Helmets are pretty good. A buckler can be nice when paired with a sword for the parry re-roll, but is otherwise not that good. I will say that, if you're going to equip armor you really have to go all-out for it to be a good investment. Stack a guy with heavy armor, Gromril if you can, and a shield to make sure he's decently protected. Light armor or a shield on its own isn't going to do you a whole lot of good.
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