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BurnTehWitch
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PostSubject: Ungors   Tue 13 Oct 2009 - 14:03

For my second warband I'm thinking of doing Beastmen.

Are Ungors worth grabbing? Or are they about as worthless as Zealots?

Also are Minotaurs good?

Thanks!!
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MyLittlePwny
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Tue 13 Oct 2009 - 15:13

Minotaurs are insane... They earn exp (slowly) and you can give them heavy armor, shield and sword which makes them pretty damn hard to kill... :/
Ungors aint bad Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Tue 13 Oct 2009 - 15:59

Having played against Beastmen many times, but having very little experience running them myself, I can say that Minotaurs are definitely worth it (although you do want to keep him protected, losing the Minotaur would be a HUGE blow to the warband), but I don't really know about Ungors.

At a glance, I'd go with Gors (+1 WS/T for just 10 gc more) and then warhounds to fill out the ranks. They may not be able to gain xp, but at 10 gc cheaper and with better stats, and in light of the fact that ungors can't become heroes anyways, I think I'd go with the hounds.

MyLittlePwny wrote:
Minotaurs are insane... They earn exp (slowly) and you can give them heavy armor, shield and sword which makes them pretty damn hard to kill... :/
It used to be that minotaurs gained xp normally, but could never become heroes. Did something change?
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Matumaros
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Tue 13 Oct 2009 - 17:16

Beastmen and Witch Hunters are the 2 bands I've used the most, and from my experience Ungors don't really compare to Zealots.

Imho, Ungors really get little if no use, and the main reason is what Myntokk already said (only 10gc more and you got a Gor, a really good fighter that can "lad").
Even in later games, Ungors hardly are worth their price, as the max number of fighters in the band is 15, which you'll want to be distributed as 5 starting heroes, 5 Gors and 5 Hounds (or the eventual Minotaur). Hounds are way faster, usually hit harder and cost that sweet 10gc less (not including weapons!)...
Just to get all 5 starting heroes you'll be spending a lot of gold.
The only "special feature" Ungors get is wielding spears, which means adding 10gc and possibly another 5gc for a shield. Not much for a 40gc, Ld6 model...

Zeals are a completely different story, as they can "lad", have access to cheap shooting and really are cheap for that 20gc.
For these reasons, if you buy 1 in a starting band and manage to get him some experience, you'll love adding more members to his group.
Also, a "ladded" Zeal grows quickly and choosing shooting skills can become quite a good archer...
I'm sure many other players feel different towards'em, but I had my satisfactions with zeals.

Minotaur, like almost all large creatures, is hardly that scary by the time you get the money to hire him... at least not more than the average experinced hero, not to say beasts like vampires and possessed. I'm still considering Rat Ogres slightly better than Minos.
That said, Minos remain good with proper equipment, but don't overestimate'em... consider your eventual Mino as the cherry on your cake.

Cheers!!!
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BurnTehWitch
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Tue 13 Oct 2009 - 21:40

Great! Thanks for all the input! I really like Beatys!

I do find it funny that their racial max on Strength is 4 as humans is the same, but I guess this could unbalance this band a bit.

Matumaros, thanks for all your input, I may pick your brain from time to time for strategy if that's ok Very Happy

One thing I'd like to ask though is, what are Zeals? Sorry if that's a dumb question...
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catferret
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Tue 13 Oct 2009 - 22:02

Zeals=Zealots (from the Witch Hunter warband).
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MyLittlePwny
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Wed 14 Oct 2009 - 2:59

Oh i must be confusing the Minotaur with the ogre... Sorry about the exp mixup Smile

And yeah, the hounds are DEFINATELY worth it early on...
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BurnTehWitch
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Wed 14 Oct 2009 - 8:02

Haha, as I was thinking about this last night I realized he was talking about Zealots... I feel quite silly, sorry!!

I was in Beastmen mindset! Laughing
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Claus
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Sat 17 Oct 2009 - 4:52

Fielding myself a Beastmen Gang.

Ungors:
Well as other said allreay ....Warhounds have better ground stats and are cheaper but Ungors can get experience. Also you are only allowed to take 5 Gors where you sooner or later have to decide either to take Ungors or Warhounds.

I allways take 2 of them and if they get the right experiences increase they are quite nice. Mine got Toughnes 4, Strength 4 and 2 Attacks....If you compare this with Warhounds the decission is clear.
O.K. it means to get the right dice roles for stats increase but when you finally have one with the right stats and you role the Tripple 3 at the Exploration chart it pays off.

Minotaur:
I never would leave house without it.
O.K. itīs an expensive guy but he can get the right stats increase and when combining this with the right spell of your Shaman "Eye of God" it generally becomes a Killing engine on the battlefield. I allways give +1 toughness to my Minotaur....meaning in combination with the spell it has Toughnes 6 now.
Finally I bought him also a Gromril Armour and a shield.

He is quite expensive guy now (200 to hire and 150 for the Gromril Armour) but it pays off...really a big killing machine especially if it got "Bloodgreed"

O.K. I must admit that I have now a 500+ rating Beastmen Gang...but they are close combat monster. Minotaur in Combination with my Centigor ....the killers in the Gang.

just my 2 Beastmen cents

Claus
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Matumaros
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Sun 18 Oct 2009 - 9:07

Claus, one of your points leaves me doubtful.

How can you get toughness 4 for your ungors? Henchmen can't get advances in both toughness and wounds in their experience table, and ungors can't become heroes...
The same applies to the minotaur.

Cheers!!!
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squattingmouse
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Sun 18 Oct 2009 - 15:36

Interesting - I'm just starting a beastman warband and have picked three ungors over a second pair of Gors to push my numbers up a bit - I don't trust a leadership of seven and a bottle test with only 9 men in the band!

The minotaur is a planned add on later on in the campaign.
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Claus
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Mon 19 Oct 2009 - 11:42

@Matumaros.

When you Ungors get experience and you roll the dice which stat to increase you are allowed to increase a stat of you whish when.....

....You twice would have to raise a stat skill or get that got allready raised or get "ladīs got talent" ......

(Basically when you would have to raise a stat that you are no longer allowed to raise.)

Thatīs how you could raise Toughness or wounds for your henchmen.

Regards
Claus
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hero
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Mon 19 Oct 2009 - 18:57

You know I never noticed before but it doesn't look like henchmen can get increased toughness or wounds; I never noticed!

Claus I don't think it's even possible like you said because the rules say to reroll until an unincreased stat comes up, never mentions getting to choose. I think for the most part a henchmen group will fill up their exp check boxes before running into a situation where all stats are increased

Maybe a roll of five should allow you to choose +1 strength or toughness. I mean you might end up with a situation where after a game or two someone has a bunch of T5 orcs or dwarfs but at it would allow henchmen to be less squishy to heroes in later games. Kind of weakens ranged weapons that don't increase strength with the wielder though. I guess if it ain't broken don't fix it.
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Tue 20 Oct 2009 - 3:15

Maybe Claus' group plays with a house rule. Often the lines between real rules and house rules gets blurred when you play that way for a long time.
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Claus
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Tue 20 Oct 2009 - 11:17

@Gentlemen "hero" and "JAFisher"

No house rule used for that one.

Mord Rulebook available for download on GW page.
Page 82, chapter "characteristic increase"
Characteristics for certain warriors may not be
increased beyond the maximum limits shown on the
following profiles. If a characteristic is at its
maximum, take the other option or roll again if you
can only increase one characteristic. If both are
already at their racial maximum, you may increase any
other (that is not already at its racial maximum) by +1
instead. Note that this is the only way to gain the
maximum Movement for some races. Remember that

Henchmen can only add +1 to any characteristic.


Thatīs how Ungor can get toughnes 4 or/and 2 wounds.
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Tue 20 Oct 2009 - 11:54

No, Henchmen cannot increase Wounds or Toughness through experience.

Yes, attributes may be increased once only, but when you roll an attribute for a Henchmen group that is already increased, then you must roll again until you get an advance you do not already have. It says so directly under "Henchmen" on that very page 82:

"Henchmen never add more than +1 point to any of their initial characteristics. If the dice roll indicates an increase in a characteristic which has already been increased (or is at its racial maximum), roll again until an unincreased charateristic is rolled. All warriors in the group gain the same advance."


The text you quoted says:
"If a characteristic is at its maximum, take the other option or roll again if you can only increase one characteristic. If both are already at their racial maximum, you may increase any other (that is not already at its racial maximum) by +1 instead."


This refers to Henchmen. Only Henchmen have results on the advance table that allow only one stat increase. All Hero results increase one of two attributes.
This part refers to the Heroes' chart. Only they have results that allow increasing two attributes and only if both of them are at their maximum you get to choose a stat freely.

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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Tue 27 Oct 2009 - 2:18

On a practical note I re-wrote my warband to be all hero and Gor and it did work. Apart from some Dwarven attacks all delivered at S4 they shrugged off most of the attacks without any issues.

My fears were unfounded it appears as courtesy of some lucky exploration rolls I now have all 5 Gor henchmen and enough cash to hire a minotaur.....
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PostSubject: Re: Ungors   Today at 12:46

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