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Hobbit
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PostSubject: Surprise Attack   Sun 4 Oct 2009 - 9:07

I've played this scenario about a dozen times, from both sides. My question is this is it possible for the defender to win? Are there any tactics which can make this scenario more of a fight? I ask because in those dozen games the defender has lost each and every game.
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise Attack   Sun 4 Oct 2009 - 9:15

Defending in a surprise attack is a most a harrowing experience, but that scenario is meant to be one sided.

Some tactics might be to use a lot of hiding to stealthily muster your forces together. The random nature of reinforcements will ruin any plans you have though.

You may want to enforce random happenings, because they might add an element of randomness to thwart the attackers.

Other than that i say suck it up and rout as soon as possible!
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise Attack   Sun 4 Oct 2009 - 10:00

I always stress that Mordheim is a CAMPAIGN system. As such its scenarios are not meant to be completely fair but to balance overall. Surprise Attack favors the lower rated warband, since that player gets to determine Attacker or Defender. It is meant to give that player an advantage. In the early stages of a campaign the advantage may not be needed or even fair but that's also why the system for choosing the scenarios is random.

I've played it dozens of times over the last 10 yrs and my experience is rather different, for us I'd say its more 60/40 to 70/30 (although some players like Da Bank always lost as the Defender.) Smile

Terrain is huge. If there is a tall building near the center of the table 2 warband members might be able to set up inside of the same building. Either way our group tends to look for hard to approach places to place their heroes and then henchmen are shunted to the outside edges. Survival is the key for most of us so we also shove expendable models into the open as bait or even as sacrificial lambs so that the heroes can scamper if they want.

Pay attention to the rules. Most Defenders do not take advantage of the rule that allows them to charge as their entry move for the warband members who are off table searching the ruins. Granted the opportunity to charge is rare, but it is usually devastating to the attackers.

Finally I have to ask how long your campaigns last and how you treat new players and players that are starting over. We play at a store and run 14 week cycles. For new players who join in progress or if someone starts over, its sink or swim. Thus there are some huge disparities in warband strength. In those situations the lower rated warband almost always loses and its an uphill battle for them no matter what the advantages.


Last edited by Von Kurst on Sun 4 Oct 2009 - 13:26; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise Attack   Sun 4 Oct 2009 - 10:39

I have to agree with Von Kurst's analysis - if you lost you probably had the higher rating to begin with: so it acts (along with the underdog bonus) as a balancing factor on the campaign overall. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise Attack   Sun 4 Oct 2009 - 14:59

It probably wasn't clear from my post, I'm not complaining the scenario is unwinable. I can appriciate that it is there to favour the person with the weaker warband. (I might question the accuracy of the rating system, but that's a different point.) My question was more is the scenario winable, which from Von Kurst's post would appear to be the case, and asking for tips on how to win it.

As a matter of interest I am Dazgrim from Warhammer-Empire, and am playing in the same campaign as meerkat/rufus sparkfire.
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise Attack   Sun 4 Oct 2009 - 15:27

Ah, good to know! I like it when more than one person from a group can comment on a campaign... Wink

Point taken on the main focus of the thread: I'm not 100% certain, but I think I won it once, though if I did it was most likely down to my luck with the reinforcement and deployment rolls!
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise Attack   Sun 4 Oct 2009 - 15:30

Dazgrim, ya sneakin' git! Passin' yerself off as a 'obbit! Welcome aboard (belatedly.) At start the warband rating system is pants at times. Mainly I try to minimize the damage and leave with dignity.

Another tactic--
You can chance overloading a table side so that it will be difficult to do much damage if the attacker enters from the other board edges. Even in this I recommend putting sacrifices out in case luck goes against you. Always keep heroes toward the center of the board and start them on upper stories if possible. (Knowing your terrain this advice is for later.)
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PostSubject: Re: Surprise Attack   Today at 8:39

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